John Reid says smoking is one of the few pleasures affordable to the working class

[Tinker]

John Reid on the working class and smoking

Don't normally like John Reid but can't help feeling he's been quite human with this comment.

not just the working class, tinks, i miss my cigarettes and thought they were one of my few pleasures in life!

seriously, though, you could say the same about the lottery - yet one could also make the same argument about a regressive tax levied on the poor in that context too...

Whilst I think it only resonable to understand the motivation to smoke, I think leaving people to smoke instead of sorting out the problems of why they do is irresponsible in a government.

I work in Ireland once a month and have to say that the ban is a real pleasure. The air smells fresher and for ashtmatics like me going to a pub is now a reality. You notice it as soon as you get into the airport now in Dublin and you can take a big gulp of healthy air.

Diagio is now having to market pubs though and there are great adverts on why its good to drink in public!

Dino - you dont?

yuk no sucgh a lovely dinosaur too!

But that is what he said: "If we wish to change people's habits we will often have to help change the circumstances in which they live."

Can also see where he's coming from (kind of). My DF (dad) has been told to stop eating bad food, to stop drinking and to stop smoking for the sake of his health - all the stuff he hasn't done in excess but for a long while. He says they (the experts) "can go boil their heads for taking all his fun away" as far as he's concerned.

He has had a hard time finding a good job that does his RAF past justice - now has a pretty horrible job that doesn't give any pleasure or satisfaction (but just about pays the bills) so the odd drink and a ciggie in front of the telly makes him happy when he gets home . . . and although I hate to see him defying advice I have to admit that what makes him happy makes me happy.

Not sure about the class comment though, we all need/like our little pleasures in life regardless of our circumstances!

Have to say i find attitude's such as john Reid's equally patronizing and offensive. I don't think it's going to do much to improve the lot of kids in the sort of families he refers to either.

I think that John 'oh fck, not health' Reid is a total arse. if anyone is being patronising here it's him...wnker!

I sort of see where he is coming from, but smoking is considered a pleasure by people from many classes. So it is quite patronising just to point at the working classes.

There is something a little pessimistic about it all. Also agree it is patronising but in this sort of discussion it is very hard not to be.

It almost seems to be giving up on people like there is not alot we can do so let them have lung cancer etc. A kind of short term approach.

Anything that helps people make healthy choices is good but as an overweight person I do get sick of being told off. Having said that I worked for many years in chest medicine. If I could prevent one person suffering the kind of death from some of the smoking related diseases that I have witnessed then I would.

Maybe people from top socioeconomic live a relatively healthier life style, although they may smoke they might excercise, eat better foods, have more holidays and enjoy a better standard of living there by reducing stress etc?

Good point dino.

As the point about banning smoking in public places must be to protect people who don't smoke and don't want to breathe in smoke from other's cigarettes, I think the comment is pointless and irrelevant in that context.

I do see his point somewhat. But we are working class and we dont smoke, we do drink though

On the public places ban. I think yes and no. My sister had cystic fibrosis and smoke used to really agrivate her cheast and people smoking in restraunts/trains etc was a problems. Pub bars I really dont have a pronblem with people smoking in tbh

I don't see how something that makes you smell, be out of breath, hack up lungfuls every morning and costs £4 a pack can be seen as pleasureable.

Sorry I grew up with both my mum and dad and whole family smoking on front of me and watched my grandad waste away from lung cancer. I agree it's peoples choice to smoke but where's my choice to not have to breathe it in.

Poor John Reid though he can't seem to do anything right - is he a smoker himself?

SK, he used to be a 60-a-day man until 18mths ago, apparently.

education helps people to stop smoking as does hope for the future. what makes me laugh is that the people i know who smoke don't have the social support to go out smoking in pubs they smoke in their own houses

Sweetkitty, I am like you, both my parents and most of my family smoked heavily in front of me. I can't believe anyone of my generation would, regardless of the health issues, choose to stink like a bin! Honestly, I see these people, all smartly dressed and the smell, no amount of perfume is going to cover that!

I found his comments offensive and patronising. And who does he mean working class? I am a SAHM, DH is on a low-income, which I suppose makes us that. Our idea of simple pleasure is to go on days out with our ds twin toddlers. Not to burn £4 a pop.

I have seen what smoking does to people in the end. Watched a man, coughing up bits of lung through emphasima (I know I've spelled that wrong but it is late and I've had a long day!) still desperate for a fag.

Our generation have no excuse to become addicted, unlike our parents we know the dangers. If you smoke on your own head be it, just keep the stink and smog away from me and mine!

As far as I'm concerned Smoking killed my mum (ooh, how's that for a thread killing comment?). But I thought Reid's comments were quite human and appropriate, too. Esp. if you don't have much money, your pleasures in life are fewer, and tend to include the traditional vices because they are cheap and accessible (smoking, a pint, the lotto). Stating the obvious doesn't endorse it, but you can't tackle a problem if you don't recognise the realities of why it's so entrenched.

In general the poorer you are the more likely you are to smoke. On average a smoler spends £2000 a year on cigarettes. This is large amount of money for anyone. This would buy a good family holiday each year. It seems such a shame that people will risk a 1 in 3 death rate for an instat pleasure when they could live longer with less illness and have more money for other pleasurable things.

I thought his comments were very patronising, along the lines of 'Bread and Ciruses'.

Smoking kills 340 people every day in the UK. That is a Jumbo jet crashing every day!

£2000/yr is a pity, but the average person (of any social class) is crap at saving and long-term financial planning. Couple that with an addicitve habit and lower incomes to start with...

I'm not saying that it is easy (although my mum would , she quit a 20 a day habit of 40 years cold turkey!)

The trouble with the £2000 is that it would take a year to realise, and people do see things short term, The same probelm is also seen in the risk. One in three smokers are killed by their habit. If you offered someone 3 tablets and said try them, two will make you feel good and one will kill you, no-one would take you up on it. But people do that 20-40 times a day!

What is sad is that the people who could most use the £2000 good holiday are the people who are most likely to smoke.

I don't think that smoking is affordable, I think it's a really expensive habit.