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We're all good enough mums - Today's Times 2

79 replies

Imafairy · 30/01/2007 08:44

I thought this was quite good.

OP posts:
Caligula · 30/01/2007 11:27

I do that Cod.

I bet they think I'm stand-offish.

paulaplumpbottom · 30/01/2007 11:28

I like chatting at the school gates. Its not a competitive thing I just happen to like a lot of the otyher mothers, some of which I have known since we were pregnant.

FluffyMummy123 · 30/01/2007 11:30

Message withdrawn

oliveoil · 30/01/2007 11:33

we have a buggy clique at my local one who hog the pavement

so I barge through with my aged McClaren going MORRRRRRRRNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no idea if they are competitive or not, shall find out in September when dd1 starts but I have a great eyeroll and fgs expression at the ready

GrumpyOldHorsewoman · 30/01/2007 12:11

I don't even see anyone at the school gates - I wait around the corner and meet DD1. Unfortunately I am related to a few of these women (and yes, I'm sorry to say that they all, bar one, are women) so I get to hear how little so-and-so has been put on the gifted children's programme, and how 'my girls need their vegetables' from one mother who feeds her kids crap because she can't be arsed to cook, but then complains about the dinners at school. What am I going to do when they start speaking, put my fingers in my ears and go 'Lalalala' very loudly? Alpha Mum may be most commonly found at the school gate, but she lurks elsewhere too, you know.

DimpledThighs · 30/01/2007 13:53

we have a group of mums who compete to be the most 'I am so laid back I don't care' whilst secretly inviting other childre to play so they can rifle through their school books and compare spelings!

Caligula · 30/01/2007 13:54

LOL at waiting round the corner for your DD. Do you wear a disguise?

Mumpbump · 30/01/2007 14:08

I thought the article was very good too... It's amazing how much conflicting info there is out there!

paulaplumpbottom · 30/01/2007 14:51

whilst secretly inviting other childre to play so they can rifle through their school books and compare spelings!

people do this???

Cloudhopper · 30/01/2007 14:57

I just can't shake the feeling that behind every 'Slummy Mummy' in her book is a thwarted 'Alpha Mum' who has realised that her kids just aren't Oxford material.

It's the classic "I never revised so I don't care that I didn't do well" mentality. Don't try, can't fail.

While they sit around the Gaggia coffee machine drinking organic fairtrade espressos and sneaking out for a quick cigarette.

"Oh, aren't we rebellious".

Caligula · 30/01/2007 15:05

Hmm, how does some of this alpha mum behaviour differ from being a nutter?

julialaus · 30/01/2007 15:06

I found this article quite interesting as well and would have put the link on here if it hadn't been there.

The funny thing is that I don't think all this is very new. It's just that it's so fashionable to write about mums, children, family life etc. constantly nowadays.

My mum still certainly made sure I didn't have too many sweets therefore 'limited my sugar intake'.

She sew dressing-up costumes for me herself (which I can't do and won't do for my children).

She also learned something about nutrition - which was more basic 30 years ago but when she read that tinned food hardly contained any vitamins [at that time it wasn't that obvious apparently] she avoided it and cooked more fresh food. And not just mums, I remember my dad asking me if I had at least had one piece of fresh fruit every day (and bananas didn't 'count').

And btw. my MIL is probably one of the first mums who started worrying about organic food - even though they lived in the middle of a city they bought it directly from a farm more than 25 yrs ago I think and she still buys organic food only and with a critical eye scans my fridge asking meaccusingly why I don't buy organic butter for example, at least for the children (not so important for me, she thinks)! Not many of today's mums would go that far.)

My mum went into panic when she was out with me when I was a baby/toddler for an important appointment and I fell asleep in the pram as I was supposed to have lunch but then couldn't at the usual time.
It's hard to believe nowadays but sounds far more neurotic than buying Annab. K. weaning books (just overheard two new mums in the supermarket talking about that - would have loved to offer them my copy which I hardly used, lol...).

She never even went out of the house without make-up.

As for extra-curricular activities, my mum sent me to music and swimming classes from age 5, went to sth called 'mother-toddler-gymnastics' when I was v. young, made sure I learned an instrument (not at 2 though, I was 7 when I started and looking back found that too late!) and as I was completely un-sporty she made sure I went to a sports club once a week. She read to me, made sure I did my homework every day (state primary in Germany at a time where private schools where almost unheard of in Germany and the very few that existed were for the very thick who needed everything hammered into their brains, at least that was the perception(things are changing now and more children go private, don't have the numbers but suspect it's still less than in the UK) and particularly when I was at primary school she invented lots of extra exercises (spelling and maths mainly, the latter was surprisingly similar to Kumon maths, only that she just made it up) to make sure I made it into grammar school which I did (though a far higher percentage of pupils in Germany attends the equivalent of grammar schools, so maybe it's not quite the same).

Thing is she was originally from a working class background but I would probably describe my parents as lower middle class although the class system is not that obvious and set in stone in Germany and you can move up through education (unlike here).

Nearly the same applies for my MIL - their cihldren did get lots of homework help and extra tuition, only was it done by their parents, not tutors, but it was done, also they played instruments, did sports, maybe a bit later than is fashionable now but they did. She still makes a huge fuss about how important it is that I read to my children and more importantly, talk about the books, don't plonk them in front of a DVD but watch it with them (which I normally can't stand and rather surf the net in the meantime -does this count as a 'slummy mummy' moment?).

Sometimes I think in a way they fussed even more over the children and I get the guilty feeling instilled not by other mums at the school gates or the media but by my parents & in-laws.

The only difference is, nobody wrote any articles about mums like them or invented catchy names for the different mummy categories. But they existed! So sometimes it annoys me a bit that today's mums are portrayed as being overly competetive, nutrition-conscious, fussy, busy etc.

Has anyone read the book? Is it worth reading?

Just read the Cloudhoppers comment, I have at least one ds who definitely isn't Oxford material due to SEN and we do have a Gaggia coffee maker (the coffee is neither fairtrade nor organic but italian, and I do not smoke though). So what is this going to tell me? Utterly confused now.

Cloudhopper · 30/01/2007 15:13

Sorry julialaus, I was just being flippant as usual. Just that their definition of 'Slummy mummy' isn't mine, that's all.

BTW I have a Gaggia machine. I am probably being self-deprecating about middle class angst again.

Kiff · 30/01/2007 23:44

re: "being a mother is actually mostly amateur, low-grade stuff"

  • I've put in a lot more hours at mothering than I ever did achieving my professional status.
-I've read books researched the internet and attended classes -I've observed experts in their field at work and consulted with them for advice (doctors/hvs/other mums)
  • i'm the undisputed expert of my area of expertise (dcs)
  • I have a high degree of autonomous decision making power
  • It costs a lot of money to replace me

that sounds pretty professional and high grade to me.

the daft woman is just stringing words together without any sense or meaning.

Judy1234 · 31/01/2007 16:54

They feel they have to compete because they don't have a proper job so they turn motherhood into some kind oif massive competition rather than parenthood being something men and women have always done alongside their work and life. Instead they make it their be all and end all. I know many but I don't see them as superior. I see them as women who didn't have an interesting job they wanted to continue and who try to make motherhood into something it isn't, a competition. I suspect these competitive ones would be better putting all that energy into a good job rather than making sure little johnny has the latest up to the minute clothing and walks before any other child in the universe.

I do read the slummy mummy column and i recognise some of the stereotypes in it. I didn't assume it described a private school for some reason. I'm not sure why. Perhaps I didn't find it middle class enough!

paulaplumpbottom · 31/01/2007 17:15
Hmm
filthymindedvixen · 31/01/2007 17:40

blardyhell Xenia - I agree with you!!

''I see them as women who didn't have an interesting job they wanted to continue and who try to make motherhood into something it isn't, a competition.''

I have a friend who that comment describes to a tee.
I've heard her grill her dd on who's in which group for maths/spelling, who's reading xyz level books, how many spellings so-and-so got in the test etc. She asks these questions almost before she remembers to ask dd if she's had a good day

filthymindedvixen · 31/01/2007 17:42

(though am slightly worried you mean all SAHM are women who didn't have an interesting job they wanted to continue...? I'm sure you didn't.)

paulaplumpbottom · 31/01/2007 17:47

Of course thats what she means

TenaLady · 31/01/2007 17:48

I dont think we will know if we have been good mums until our kids have grown and told us so.

So we can all stumble through parenting together. All children are different and no one rule suits all.

Kiff · 31/01/2007 17:50

hey, welcome back xenia! You dissapeared for a while - I thought you'd let your fan club get under your skin.

I think you have a point here. However, I think the answer is more complicated than 'they'd be better off with a job'. It's more about insecurity, and that can often be a constant whether you express it through your kids, or through conspicuous consumption or through putting in hellish hours at work.

Nothing wrong or demeaning for a woman with a high level of intelligence, drive and ambition investing herself totally in her kids. Its just that it can be done by a) focussing on your kids needs for your kids sake (making competition irrelevant) b) contributing to the wider community to make your immediate social setting better, for the sake of your kids and other kids.

Competition is ultimately destructive in the context of children, that's the point.

Judy1234 · 31/01/2007 18:04

I was being deliberately ambiguous on that point for the fun of it.

K, I was skiiing last week (without the children) - that was all and I have a very ancient lap top that wouldn't pick up the wireless signal in the chalet.

On parents (and some fathers are as bad, son must be top, must be in first rugby team etc etc) too many parents live out their life through their children and put false expectations on them.

There is an arrogance of some stay at home parents that they will know what is best for thie children. Also too many parents think their children are the bee's knees when the children in fact are a bit thick and terribly objectionable. It is as if the parent is inured to their faults and also believes that only they can be the best person to deal with their children. In fact we all have faults and having two parents around or relatives or friends gives very useful balance.

Whether it's - here's my child's badge of success an ASBO or 11 A* GCSEs - it's the same thing. There is not enough humility about what parents say about their children. He's not very good at this or he's one of the worst in the class at Y when they're talking to other parents.

Caligula · 31/01/2007 19:27

"There is an arrogance of some stay at home parents that they will know what is best for thie children"

Well I'm terribly arrogant then, and I think all other parents should be, because on the whole I think most parents do know better than anyone else what's best for their children.

Skyler · 31/01/2007 20:00

Caligula - I have nodded along with every one of your posts on this thread.
Xenia - Of course I know what is best for my girls. They are nearly 4 and 19mths, they won't know for themselves. If I didn't believe that then I might as well give up. Who made the decisions for your children if you as their mother didn't know what was best???
Being a SAHM is my job at the moment. I wouldn't swap it. I try to do the best for my girls but this does NOT make me a competitive mum. I am well aware my dd's are far from perfect and not the smartest, most polite, prettiest etc, and thank goodness they aren't quite frankly. It is precisely because I know this that I make sure they know I love them completely and unconditionally. The world will be out to knock them, they don't need me setting them up for it. I want them to be happy and confident, but not competitive I am afraid.

paulaplumpbottom · 31/01/2007 20:04

I echo that Skyler