I'm Jack Monroe. Ask me anything.

[MxJackMonroe]

Hi Mumsnet.

It seems every time I am in the news, a MN thread about all things transgender crops up. I didn't see the last one (yesterday?) as I don't come on here very often these days - people who eavesdrop etc etc. I was cooking in a tent in a muddy field all day, having a ball, not googling myself on the internet!

The thread was deleted - which was nothing to do with me, nor my lawyer. The day I call him about a MN thread is the day I pack everything in for good. So far only the Mail and Hopkins have had legal action taken against them, and both for quite serious statements. I'm not rich enough nor quite bothered enough to call him every time someone says mean words on the internets.

ANYWAY. Threads about me tend to get deleted. So here's a new one. Because there are clearly some questions that keep coming up, criticisms that I could answer, speculation I could clarify and untruths that could do with correction.

So I'm taking questions. I'm an adult and I take an awful lot of criticism and unkindness online, on the chin. I am pretty mentally stable right now, and feel this could be a constructive discussion.

In order to stop this descending into pandemonium, using general 'chair' rules, to start with I'll take one question from each user - if it's quiet and everything gets answered, feel free to add follow up questions.

It doesn't have to be about boobs, dresses, hormones. Literally ask me anything.

MN - please don't delete this thread. I think people have valid things to say and I'm here with my big girl/boy pants on to hear them.

Over to you.

If you are telling women they should accept MTTs in their intimate spaces, it's up to you to come up with the evidence. If transactivists thought this survey was wrong they could do more surveys. But I don't think they will. They don't need to anyway because it's much easier just to call women who question this "bigots" and "TERFs".

I have not assumed there is no biological basis for people being trans. If there is a biological basis it still doesn't make MTTs women though.

Thank you for coming and doing this. I have a ...fantasy... of writing a food blog that gets famous. I have a few (more than 700 highly tested) recipes ready to go, and I am now working part time as a chef purely to road test my ideas (please don't tell my boss that bit). Given the last few years, would you encourage my fantasy?

Don't know if you've listed your rapes and assaults before - up thread it seemed like you hadn't shared them and didn't want to be asked. If not maybe just double-check you want the details left up before the Daily Crappola gets it.

You've said you're pretty happy, which is the most important thing. Now on to serious business: do you wash up as you go along, or leave it all till the end?

HI!!

I've been off doing some actual work. I'll be back tomorrow with answers to the hevaier questions. Please don't derail this with a bombardmen of questions about MTF people, as I have already said I won't speak for experiences outside of my own and there seems to be quite a fixation on who has a penis and where they can go, which is separate to my interview and article and entirely outside of what I feel I can confidently comment on.

Goodnight and thankyou for keeping it mostly respectful.

x

rainytea

I have spoken about them in brief before. And on Newsnight.

I wash up ... er... when I run out of pans. Most days. Never more than three days later.

PlentyofPubeGardens sums it up for me:

"One of the things I liked most about you was I thought you were a really good role model for gender non-conforming women. It turns out you're not though, you are telling the world that you are not one of us and I can't help feeling disappointed...What bothers me is that you (and an increasing number of others) have decided to opt out of being a woman (as if such a thing were possible). That does harm women because it shoehorns the rest of us into an ever tighter gender box. None of us belong in there."

But like Plenty this has been a good conversation and has brought a wider audience into a debate about the issue who only know you through your food stuff and who would probably never engage willingly with a 'feminist' thread. So thanks for that.

I feel for you but also think that you have put yourself out there to agitate these discussions - whether you quite realised the passion, frustrations and confusion your stance would stir up, I'm not sure - but I've definitely felt it's been an interesting thread!

Do you think you 'pass' as a male sufficiently that you would be challenged in the female loo and not challenged in the male loo? I think you're probably wrong there

I don't try to pass as male - I'm moderately busty and certainly don't minimise it but I tend to dress for practicality and comfort, rather than prettiness, most of the time. I have been challenged in the ladies'. I've had salesmen pause before deciding whether to address me as Sir or Madam. Why would Jack be wrong?

Someone posted this earlier, I forget who....

I just don't understand why people care so much what you or anyone else calls yourself or has in your trousers. How do you explain this apparent anger?

I'll try and explain my anger. It's not about what people have in their trousers. This reductive bullshit about "reducing people to what's in their pants" is evidence of stupidity of simple refusal to see the many potential issues that could happen, and probably have, or will.

We are not a bunch of pearl clutching, uptight women worrying about things that won't happen. Men with cocks have been in public changing rooms at swimming pools, letting it all hang out. Were they transwomen? Dunno. But in many places (some countries, and some states in the US, all you have to say to be recognised as a woman is to say you are one. So who's to tell the difference?

How many of us (quick straw poll) have seen an unwanted cock, as a child or teenager? You know....been groped, or flashed at, or worse. I'll start. I'm super lucky. It only happened 3 times (groped/flashed - thankfully not 'worse'). Twice in what was supposed to be a 'female only' space. Now, these arseholes can, in many places, simply say they are a woman and get their cock out with impunity. In gym, swimming pool changing rooms, bathrooms, women's shelters etc. Is that fair on genuine trans women who wouldn't dream of doing the same? Probably not. So what do you do? Throw women under a bus, that's what.

The midwives alliance of North America once referred to the women in their care as 'women' and 'mothers'. Not any more. In 2004 they changed their core competencies document language to 'pregnant people' and birthing individuals. Erasing the word 'woman' and 'mothers' from a document relating to an experience that is uniquely female. Dissenters were immediately howled at for being transphobic and branded as implicit in violence against transpeople.

Meanwhile, the US high-fives itself for having a female CEO in its top 10 highest earning CEOs. Read the small print and Martine Rothblatt is a biological man (with a wife and kids).

and then there's this

These words might hurt the feelings of transwomen (and transmen) But, I'm sorry, hurt feelings should not get in the way of facts. They also should not get in the way of quotas for women (on boards, for scholarships, sporting teams etc) or crime statistics. They should not get in the way of awarding government contracts (some governments have quotas for female owned companies) or women's literary awards (there's a reason women still author books under their initials). They should not get in the way of Ronda Roussey saying "actually, I don't want to fight a male bodied person in a female sport".

When a trans woman commits rape, that should be recorded as a man committing rape, not a woman. Ever. But it is, and transwomen commit crime at the same rates as men.

What does being a woman feel like? Everything that makes me feel like a woman is related to my sex not my gender. Breasts, periods, trying to get pregnant, trying not to get pregnant, childbirth, menopause, my body after pregnancy.

I was not assigned a sex at birth. Mum's OB looked at my newborn body and correctly recorded my sex as female. It's not a lucky dip, people.

Transpeople should wear what they want, fuck whoever they want and do whatever they want to their bodies (though I wish they wouldn't) , and feel safe, without being abused. I know that this is not happening to them at the moment and that is a bad thing. I saw a Ted talk recently that featured pictures of a trans woman after a terrible beating. I felt sick about it. I don't care if transpeople teach my children, drive my taxi, cut my hair or do my taxes. Really, I don't. I want them to be safe. A lot of the time they are not, and now it has become women's problem to solve. Shove up the bench and make room, acquiesce, placate, eat the burnt chop.

Despite what some trans people will say, my views do not contribute to their abuse. If everyone thought like me, then trans woman and men would be safe and be able to freely walk around wearing whatever they wanted, pissing safely and (ideally) not mutilating their bodies.

"If a man undergoes transgender treatment, such as hormones, laser hair removal, all the psychiatric gumph that comes with it, purchases womens clothes and shoes, wears them publicly, with the sole intention of abusing other women, then he is a deviant, a fraud and a danger. But he is not a trans woman."

Jack, who are you to define whether someone else is a transwoman or not?

Don't you see how illogical your argument is?

Why isn't he a transwoman? He is undergoing hormone treatment, psychiatric gumph and wearing clothes that our culture has assigned to women. He is doing everything Caitlyn Jenner is doing. He is doing everything Kelly Malone is doing.

Are you saying that being a transwoman is all about intention? That you can only be a transwoman if your intentions are good? If that is the case, how can women (and anyone else) tell if someone is a transwoman if they do all the things you've mentioned and say they are? How do we know their intentions if they don't tell us them?

Can you see the problem here, Jack?

"Transwomen can - and are - rape victims. If a transwoman has been raped, where should she go for help and support if not a rape crisis support group?"

The question isn't whether a transwoman can go for help and support if she has been raped. The question is where can the quarter of all women who are raped or sexually assaulted, go for help and support, if they pick the phone up to a rape crisis centre and have a male voice on the other end. Many would simply put the phone back down again. Are you content that women be denied the support they need when they are raped, in order to spare transwomen's feelings? Do you honestly think the need for a transwoman to be validated as female, trumps the need of a rape victim to find support when she needs it?

Hi Jack,

I admire you for coming on here, especially as you must know it's not the easiest place for trans posters. A lot braver than most celebs they have on here, and kudos for actually engaging and answering the difficult questions (in the main and I am hopeful you will return and answer the rest).

I would be interested to know if you have an opinion why MTF trans people seem so much more vocal and numerous than FTM trans people? And does it frustrate you that the debate is largely focused on the MTF experience? Is this another example of the patriarchy at work (i.e. because people raised as male have an expectation that their rights will be expected and their voices heard in a way that people raised as women do not-and therefore they carry that with them as they transition)? It worries me that this is another manifestation of sexism, the way that the debate is dominated by the MTF experience, and I would be interested in knowing your thoughts.

that should have read 'rights will be respected...' sorry!

Agree with everything dog says

soeren the best evidence we have suggests that TW retain a male pattern of criminality. This is based on a cohort study of all the post op TW in the country over a 30 year period, in one of the best countries in the world to be trans. You are right, I'm not aware of any similar studies but there doesn't seem to be anything inherently flawed about their methodology. They also looked at many, many aspects of TW lives and this supported the evidence from other studies that mental health is no better after transition. I think that's a huge thing for trans people to know, and not discussed nearly enough .

So, why are you so desperate to reject it? What is your belief that their conclusions must be flawed, based on? Particularly when other conclusions in the study are the same as other studies?

Do you disagree that men commit crimes at a higher rate and are responsible for almost all violent and sexual crime? TW are male - why would their criminality be any different? Ladybrains?

By the way Jack, thank you again for being so honest and open and willing to engage, it's truly unusual and refreshing.

But also, please don't feel you have to answer everything everyone puts to you if you're still wrestling with the arguments. What comes across is that you are very willing to engage and genuinely thoughtful, not just giving a formulaic response that's your "party line". So it's perfectly reasonable for your thoughts to take waaaaaay longer than a day or so, it takes time to gather thoughts, mull over them, accept what you agree with and what you don't and formulate arguments. And you probably already know this, but you don't owe any of us answers and we are all aware of that.

I think you owe yourself some though. Best of luck.

And also, do you agree that if you can't afford arborio, pudding rice is a much better replacement for risotto, than ordinary long grain rice.

I think there are really difficult issues here that an individual can't solve.

It seems really clear to me, in a way that is so simple that it is probably actually simplistic (and I apologise for this) that in the vast majority of "trans" cases (I personally know some people struggling with gender issues) the problem is with society and with gender, not with people and their feelings and their bodies.

However, people still have to live in society. I couldn't advise a woman to pretend the patriarchy doesn't exist, nor could I advise a person of colour in 80s South Africa to pretend apartheid doesn't exist and "just live freely" or some such shit. Same with trans people - they are struggling as individuals to find a mode of existence that remotely works for them - aren't we all?

There will of course be logical gaps in their positions because society and patriarchy is shit and cares about as much for logic as it does for women, and this is the framework we're all labouring under

Jack I do hope you answer some of the more difficult questions today.

Do you think being transgender is a medical condition?

Yes Maudlin, of course that's right.

On an individual level, I can accept that there will be logic gaps, because people just have to try and get by as best they can in a society profoundly hostile to humanity, particularly the half of humanity which has XX chromosomes, vaginas, ovaries, etc.

It's only when it gets political - when the state starts infringing on the rights of the half of humanity that has already been shat upon by the other half throughout the whole of history - that I feel we have to stand up and vigorously oppose the further entrenchment of male privilege and the attempt to shut down the opening up of women's opportunities before we've had time to exercise the freedom we've won so recently; part of that opposition is pointing out the glaring gaps in logic and reason.

Do you know of the 'no true Scotsman ' fallacy? Basically - if a person behaves outside of the expected norm for a certain group then that person gets defined out of that group. You state that males who go through all the processes of transitioning to become trans women but are also sexual predators are not true trans women. How do you know that? Could they not just be trans women who are also sexual predators? In which case, doesn't it make sense for females to exclude all males from vulnerable spaces, due to the fact that trans women (whether 'genuine' or not) most of the time are physically stronger than women and also possess penises?

I'm only just making my way through this thread (hiiii Jack! Your half and half single rise bread got me back in to baking bread!), and am seething to see this post by DaisyDaisy claiming to refer to a "factual" link .

I urge everyone currently buying into Jack's crazy notions of sex and gender and dysphoria etc to read this by Rebecca Reilly Cooper. FACTS, not spin.
https://rebeccarc.com/2016/01/06/gender-is-not-a-binaryy^//^

Seriously? Just hide the thread if you don't agree. Point one arguing we're therefore all non-binary: For me, personally, I am happy being a binary female, despite blog being a typical 'girly girl' by society's standards. So I suppose I personally perceive gender as binary. However, I am perfectly fine with others perceiving gender as a spectrum and expressing their idea of their gender as somewhere on that spectrum.

'Live and let live' doesn't require labels, just acceptance.

Telling children they're actually the opposite sex/something is wrong with their body because of their personalities and that they need lifelong medication as well as surgical intervention is an outrage and scandal as far as I'm concerned. As is allowing male bodied people in rape shelters for women who have been abused by men. As is this battle to change the language around abortion, fgm and pregnancy, in order to erase women from discussing their own biological reality.
None of that is 'live and let live'.

Actually, acatcalledJohn, I think you perceive sex as binary. Which it is. Otherwise, what would 'not being a typical girly girl' have to do with anything?

Totally concur with dogs excellent post. Live and let live is not what mtf transactivists want. They want material changes which directly and adversely affect women.

I am watching this thread with interest and applaud Jack for being prepared to answer questions. I don't think it's fair to expect her to have all the answers but I think it is a good thing to have what will possibly be a high profile discussion about issues that are clearly a concern for so many. I do often see references on here to the fact that MN is the only place where people have an issue with transgender people's rights potentially putting women at risk and that's something I would challenge. I was previously vocal about transgender people's rights to access the facilities that they believe they should because reading the Guardian made me believe that it was the only liberal, progressive and inclusive way to think and that anyone who thought otherwise was a backwards bigot. As a lefty feminist liberal I certainly didn't want to be a backwards bigot, and still don't!

Being on MN and reading the concerns of intelligent, articulate women changed my view and made me think it is necessary to have these discussions. Most of my Guardian reading friends would immediately shout "transphobia" if I was to question a biological male being able to define themselves as female and access female-only spaces, unchallenged, but I would imagine that if the ramifications were explained to most people, they would be concerned. My parents, for example, would think this is absurd. They just don't read MN, which is one of the only areas of the media where this is discussed, so it isn't on their radars!

Massive round of applause for thedogstinks for summing up so eloquently how many of us feel about this issue.

Bellsa

I agree