Was Cameron right to reject calls to open borders?

[StorminaBcup]

Before I say anything else, I have not started this thread to be goady, xenophobic, racist, intolerant although I suspect I am ignorant of what are perhaps finer details.

In view of the events in Paris, Brussels, Nice and now Munich, (and suggestions that some of the attackers had entered the countries as refugees / migrants ); was Merkel right to open Germany's borders or was Cameron right to resist the pressure to do the same?

I'm torn. On the one hand it's a humanitarian catastrophe, something should have been done sooner and to deny help to thousands of refugees is unthinkable. But, I'm now wondering if those countries who were insistent on papers (but were accused of bottle-necking the process by stopping trains) were actually right too. I realise a paper-documenting exercise is also futile in a lot of situations so I'm not even sure that would've helped.

I know these things are never black and white but I've read some really interesting discussions on here so I'm curious to see what others think.

[StorminaBcup]

I've been doing a little more reading the asylum seekers (I'm using this term because not all of the people there are a mix of refugees / migrants) in Calais based on some the comments here and the majority of the articles have said that those within the camps are seeking UK asylum. This is one article (I've used this one because it's not a newspaper in an attempt to limit any political bias although I'm aware this is impossible with any media).

[FruitCider]

I haven't yet seen an Algerian in Calais, I have to say! Seems like sensationalist right wing reporting to me. I'll upload the results of the latest audit of the camp after my nap.

[FruitCider]

Unlucky it's very ironic that you have posted a link about Liz. If I need her views I can ask her next time I see her. Thanks all the same!

[unlucky83]

fruit I think Liz is irresponsible - instead of packing Jamal a bag etc she should have been encouraging him to go to the French authorities. She had given him her mobile phone number - he'd have suffocated without it - but then he shouldn't have been in the lorry in the first place.
I posted a link to her cos she is on the migrants 'side' -can't be accused of being anti-migrant. I don't think she is no borders - but I do think she is misguided - not actually helping.
The 'nicer' you make the jungle the more you encourage people to risk their life to get there ... the more people die trying to get there.
BTW the Algerian article is a BBC crossing continents report - not usually right wing, quite factual - in fact I vaguely knew Lucy Ash years ago and then she was a liberal leftie - suspect probably still is....

[StorminaBcup]

If the Calais camp moves to British shores then surely this just frees up more space in Calais and will encourage more assylum seekers to try to gain access to the UK? Our immigration process is so convuluted that it leaves the risk of overcrowding in our detention centres too. Conditions here aren't exactly cushty either.

Do you think if the camp did move it would also serve to motivate those to try enter the UK in containers / through the chunnel / more recently by boats?

I still think we need to address the issue at source.

[StorminaBcup]

Am I also right in thinking that those granted asylum as a child have to reapply when they reach 18?

[FruitCider]

Hmmm... I sometimes give migrants my number. I wouldn't be packing any bags for them though! It's more like "oh, you are getting on a boat tonight? Here's my number, let me know if you make it to Europe". Or "let me know if you make it to uk". I don't encourage any movement, only support those that migrate. Does that make sense? It's not my place to make legal or moral judgements on their action.

[Charlieismydarlin]

fruit we simply cannot solve the problems of the world though and accept everyone. Don't you get that? There could be millions.

Genuine refugees - yes.

Economic migrants? I appreciate why people want to come to the EU but it's not possible. The EU is in a state of collapse as it is.

[neonrainbow]

So can i surmise you dont have any solutions for the jungle that houses migrants who are trying to get to the uk then fruitcider? Apart from snarky comments because i didn't adhere to your brand of political correctness and i called it the jungle. Which is what its commonly known as.

I think it's absolutely right that the uk takes genuine refugees from camps and doesnt just let in migrants who pitch up in calais and make dangerous, illegal and disruptive attempts to get to a country they have no legal right to be in.

[BungoWomble]

we simply cannot solve the problems of the world though and accept everyone.

YY to that. We cannot house all the people of the world in Europe, and not in Britain. We're already one of the most densely populated countries in the world. Add to that the fact that these people are coming from a completely different culture which regularly conflicts with our own - think sharia courts v the equality act.

It is a very complicated issue. I did not agree with western actions in the middle east which have destabilised the region, and I do not agree with the western complacency around climate change which will further destabilise everywhere. I do not agree too with other political choices in the west which favour the growth of inequality. While I respect those who want to help others, the first requirement of any society is that it looks after its own. Perhaps if our richer classes were more willing to help our own poorer people (including children) and less likely to label them as shirkers and strivers who have only themselves to blame for all of their dismissed and minimised problems, they would find more cross-country support. It's not as simple as saying 'won't someone think of the children'.

[BungoWomble]

oops, didn't check the date!

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

The elephant in the room is that everyone is trying to get into Europe. There is lots of room in places like Saudi Arabia and other arab countries. Given the advantqge of a similar culture and common language, it would seem better for people fleeing war in Syria to go to another middle east country..

[scaryteacher]

Professor; not all ME countries will take the migrants/refugees...Qatar and Kuwait won't afaik. Jordan is doing its best by housing the camps.

[BungoWomble]

...and so they turn up on Europe's doorsteps instead and get annoyed with us? And the UN complains Europe isn't doing enough? How much responsibility do we really have here?