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Original poster

so because we're the catholic church, we should be allowed to discriminate

476 replies

wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 23/01/2007 13:47

or we'll close our

adoption agencies

OP posts:
Original poster
wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 23/01/2007 13:54

wow no one has an opinion on this?

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 23/01/2007 14:00

I have an opinion but it involves naughty words and shouting

Suffice to say I think it's an outrageous idea.

hannahsaunt · 23/01/2007 14:07

Maybe people giving up their child for adoption have an opinion on whom they would like to care for their child. Just because they are giving up their child doesn't mean they don't care and their opinion isn't valid.

Aloha · 23/01/2007 14:09

Richard Dawkins says that the Apartheid movement missed a trick when it's adherents didn't just say, 'Oh, it's part of our religion to discriminate against black people'. People would have fallen over themselves to back away and leave them to it.

Heathcliffscathy · 23/01/2007 14:11

if the government makes an exemption clause for this, I will be spitting nails.

adoption happens at the discretion of the agency anyway, this is simply a way of the catholic church attempting to undermine this very important piece of legislation. and it sucks.

Original poster
wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 23/01/2007 14:13

"Maybe people giving up their child for adoption have an opinion on whom they would like to care for their child. Just because they are giving up their child
doesn't mean they don't care and their opinion isn't valid."

well that argument would hold water if potential adopters were convicted criminals, but we're talking about discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Would you think it was right for people to decide that their child should not be adopted by a black/white/asian family? or a family with a disability?

OP posts:
Imafairy · 23/01/2007 14:14

If this was in relation to Muslim-based agencies I'm sure everyone WOULD be backing off, or am I just cynical?

OrmIrian · 23/01/2007 14:20

I don't think it's relevant imafairy - it's the Catholic church in this case who are pleading special status.

If you are a parent giving up a child for adoption you should have the right to know that your child will be loved and nurtured, not as to the nature of the parents who will adopt them.

Original poster
wannaBeWhateverIWannaBe · 23/01/2007 14:23

exactly, if the government doesn't pander to this demand and the catholic church responds by closing its adoption agencies, the impact will be huge, as the catholic adoption agencies are currently responsible for approximately 1 3rd of all adoptions in the UK.

OP posts:
Heathcliffscathy · 23/01/2007 14:24

it's blackmail then isn't it. how very christian of them.

Marina · 23/01/2007 14:24

A lot of practising Christians in the UK have no problem with gay adoptions and no problem with the new legislation.
I think this move by the RCs is very wrong Wannabe. I really do hope the Government stands its ground and refuses an exception.

Heathcliffscathy · 23/01/2007 14:25

here here marina

Caligula · 23/01/2007 14:36

I don't know why anyone is surprised about this, the catholic church is quite clear that they don't believe in homosexuality as a valid life choice and that they believe anyone who practices homosexual sex is living in sin. Therefore of course they wouldn't allow children to live with people who are practising homosexuals. It would be inconsistent of them if they did. And it is unreasonable of us to demand that they go against the basic tenets of their faith. However, it is also unreasonable of them to deny people basic human rights. So as we're up against two sets of competing rights, the only solution is to ensure that they don't run adoption agencies, I can't see why they run them anyway tbh, anymore than they should be running schools, but that's a different issue...

Enid · 23/01/2007 14:39

so hold on

the catholic church frowns on contraception

and then wants to minimise children's chances of adoption?

oh for goodness sake

Marina · 23/01/2007 14:41

Well quite caligula. Although I really don't agree with this viewpoint myself, it is a cornerstone of the RC beliefs (although frankly it is winked at all the time at parish level, our local RC church has several out same-sex couples worshipping). So the official line is consistent. I just think it is a huge shame they feel they have to threaten to withdraw from their excellent adoption agency work.
IMO we need more secular adoption agencies asap if the faith-based ones are going to oppose a basic piece of human rights legislation

Heathcliffscathy · 23/01/2007 14:42

that would be hear hear i meant to say then

Fireflyfairy2 · 23/01/2007 14:44

Caligula. 100% what I think!
It would go against all their principles to go from disapproving of same sex couples to suddenly letting them adopt from their agencies. The Catholic church will never back down from decisions like this.

I do not agree with them however. Surely the happiness & wellbeing of a child needs to come before their twisted idiosyncrasies??

Caligula · 23/01/2007 14:52

But they don't see it as a twisted idiosyncracy, they see it as putting a child's welfare first.

I've no doubt that they sincerely believe that placing a child in a household where homosexuality is the norm, would be against that child's interests.

How long before DominiConnor turns up, d'you think?

hannahsaunt · 23/01/2007 15:04

Do RC adoption agencies require adopting couples to be practising RCs? Otherwise, not sure how they would have a leg to stand on as presumably most of their clientele are engaging in some form of frowned-upon behaviour...

Fireflyfairy2 · 23/01/2007 15:06

I wondered that too Hannahsaunt. I don't know for sure. No, cal I know they don't see it that way, in their eyes they are doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Caligula · 23/01/2007 15:07

hannahsaunt that's what occurred to me. Surely most adopting couples, in common with everyone else, are fornicating godless sinners? Do you have to be married for example to adopt from one of these agencies?

Did I mishear on the world at one, I thought they said they account for 4% of all adoptions. Very different figure from a third, but I wasn't listening very carefully

BrummieOnTheRun · 23/01/2007 15:15

I bet they DO get away with it. They already got the govt to back down on limiting school school selection by faith (the idea that x% of children needed to come from a non-faith background).

The Catholic mafia is extremely strong. I say that coming from a Catholic background.

Caligula · 23/01/2007 15:47

I wish I'd realised how strong the catholic mafia was when I became convinced there is no such thing as God.

The atheist mafia is f**ing useless. I should have stayed in the catholic one.

frogs · 23/01/2007 16:03

The silly thing is, in practice it would probably affect precisely nobody. Afterall, if you are a gay prospective adopter, how likely are you to approach a Catholic adoption agency in preference to a secular one?

Aloha · 23/01/2007 16:05

It just makes me laugh when you get all the mean minded little bigots squealing about discrimination. ie they don't have the freedom to actively spoil other people's lives. Diddums.