Accident of sorts at Disney in Florida, may be upsetting

[CheerfulYank]

A two year old was dragged into the lagoon by an alligator a few hours ago and hasn't been seen since.

It's so awful I feel like I can't breathe. I cannot imagine how scared he/she was and what the parents are feeling.

Accounts vary but apparently they were sitting on the beach either waiting for fireworks or having movie night. It's just too awful. I'm sure it was supposed to be a wonderful trip and now this.

I know the chances that child will be found alive are almost nothing, but I am hoping against hope that he or she is. I just cannot imagine.

Agree completely Pandasrock.

What I've got from this thread is locals saying alligators get everywhere. Locals don't let their children in water, or walk their dogs near water. Locals would know no swimming meant don't go into the water.

So Disney has to take some responsibility. Locals with local knowledge wouldn't have done what that poor family did, and yet they, the local people who work for Disney, let countless families do it in their resort. The no swim sign was clearly ineffective at stopping paddling, yet there wasn't any staff to enforce the actual rule of not going in the water.

It might be rare, but from what I've now been reading about the prevalence of alligators, how they attack and how they feed, it was not unexpected. It wasn't an alligator being where no alligators could be reasonably expected or acting in a way totally out of character.

Such a stupid, wasteful, easily preventable death. That poor family were let down in the worst way.

I don't know which part of Florida these locals are from but I know locals in rural South Florida that swim, kayak and canoe in all the waterways. You can hire rowboats in Fort Myers and go and see the manatee in the Caloosahatchee, if you fall in, then you are gator prey. There are plenty of locals that grew up swimming in gator infested water, I taught one boy who had a missing thumb. It was a gator, or so he and everyone else said. He wasn't alone and was huge (tall and fat) and he and his friends managed to wrestle the gator off.

I don't know any rural Floridian that would say you can't go in the water. I know lots that have stories of gators in the their pools or near their boats. Most rural Floridians have seen, touched or had other encounters with gators. They will tell you to be careful. There are plenty of signs all over Florida that do not say no swimming. They say WARNING, ALLIGATORS.

I lived in Florida for 4 years, I have several close friends on FB that are all Floridians born and bred and none of them have said the parents should have known better, or that everyone knows there are gators. They are all shocked.

I suspect this gator might have been fed by some idiot.

If disney made decisions not to take precautions like providing clear warnings and indeed encouraged beach use when there were known dangers for business reasons that'd be really bad.

Wouldn't be surprised if they make a big payout to avoid a court case.

Disney definitely DO tell you there are alligators in that lagoon. And there are clear warning signs saying NO SWIMMING.

fanjo were you told then? By who? Serious question.

I disagree fanjo. They definitely downplay the alligator threat and encourage people to use their man made "beaches". (They could easily have chosen a draw all with railings. They chose to create an easy access beach.)

I agree Dozer, a quiet very large payout is the most likely result here.

Draw all = sea wall

Autocorrect fail, sorry

Do people really travel to places without researching though? I mean surely people know Florida is swamps and they have wildlife. Same as if you went to a snowy location, you would be stupid to not look into wildlife in area/ avalanches/ rock fall etc. You wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and walk around town in a bikini and shorts would you? You would look up local info regarding dress codes and culture before you even book. If you don't it's slightly shocking. You wouldn't hike in austrialia without plans/ plenty of water.

Yes this was an accident, but many accidents can be prevented with a little basic knowledge of the environments your in.

So the Daily Mail (yes, I know ...), says that there was a NO SWIMMING sign, but not one warning of alligators in the water. The family are from Nebraska (which, for anyone that doesn't know, is a rural, farming state with no alligators). I'm not sure what the child was doing 10 feet from the shore at 9pm in an area with signs warning people not to swim, but OMG there should have been signs warning of alligators! A lot of people from elsewhere would not know of this danger and that lagoon is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE MAGIC KINGDOM! Literally, to get from the car park to the theme park you have to either take a monorail around or a ferry across it. Its not unreasonable for people from other states or countries to assume that Disney would ensure that water was gator-free unless told otherwise. A horrible, horrible tragedy

DM article with pictures: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3643538/Two-year-old-boy-snatched-alligator-Disney-TEN-FEET-shore-reptile-struck-lifeguard-reveals.html

nicki I've stayed there 4 times before. I was informed by disney staff of the gators each time.

I have never been told, by hotel staff, about alligators in the lagoon.

It may have been mentioned on the ferry across to Magic Kingdom (I say 'may' because the only time I've taken the ferry dd1 was being very loud and I couldn't hear any announcements).

We have played on the beaches at the Floridian (where this accident happened), at the Polynesian and at the Beach/Yacht Club. None of them have warnings about alligators near the beaches, only No Swimming signs. None of the staff (and the thing about Dosney is that there are LOTS of staff) have ever mentioned alligators to us. Not at check in. Not when going to the beach. Not when asking for directions to the beach (when we weren't staying at that hotel) nor when they have seen us playing on the beaches. Not ever.

There is no information provided in the rooms or in general resort information. It is not mentioned in guidebooks (other than in general terms as mentioned previously - talk of Gator Land, or similar).

No Swimming signs are not clear enough to warn against gators. In hotel terms, No Swimming generally means that the area of water has no lifeguard on duty, and that it isn't patrolled. There is no way for a guest to extrapolate that this particular No Swimming sign means danger from gators.

We have never been asked to stay clear of the waters edge, and we have been in conversation with Cast Members while playing right next to the water. Nothing said.

even before I went to Florida I knew about the alligators here.

Most families should or would research the area. I am not saying the family are at fault but a sensible family would know that alligators are in the area - but NOT that they could snatch a child.

Then, I presume you act accordingly letting your kids paddle or not. I personally would not let my child paddle in a stretch of water that could potentially have alligators in it.

Well I don't understand that because i have 100% been told about them. Every single time.

fanjo - I was warned of gators too by Disney staff.

Plus, I'm sure the family would say 'Well he wasn't swimming, he was only paddling'.

I did loads of research about Disney- rides, queueing, vantage points for fireworks. I'm not really very interested in wildlife so didn't read about it.

Nothing I read during my research phase or when I was staying onsite suggested that I needed to worry about alligators on the Disney man made beaches. I also assumed the "no swimming" signs were due to life guarding/water quality issues especially as I knew they had shut their original water park due to water quality concerns.

I'm not stupid. It just didn.'the flag up as something to worry about.

It's not as though Disney are at all risk unaware either. When we stayed at Animal Kingdom there are constant reminders everywhere that the animals are wild, not to feed, touch, don't startle them etc. Everywhere. Information given at check in, signs on the walls, information in the rooms, even another sign on the patio doors put into the balcony. You couldn't miss them.

Gasman - same here. The sheer amount of planning and research that goes into a WDW holiday is unbelievable.

I have researched, read books, read various forums, asked questions, planned, you name it.

Never, in more than 7 years of doing all this research, across several holidays, has any mention of gators at the beaches in Disney hotels come up.

And given the needs of my children, I seriously over plan. I need to know possibilities, and potential outcomes. I need to know so that I can plan for them, as they are unable to heed warnings themselves, or generalise information.

It has never been mentioned, at all.

honestly this has upset me so much I can barely breathe. What the family must be going through is unthinkable, unimaginable. How do you move on from that? and the poor little boy... when I look at my precious daughter.. I honestly think I'd have to end my life if something like that happened, I wouldn't be able to bear it. god it's too much. I wish I had a time machine, to go back and change it. It's just too, too sad. I think I might have to have a beer. Or a vodka. Every time I think of it I feel like I've been sucker punched.

Honestly I know people are saying it's not Disney's fault but how can this not be on their radar? How can they not have signs and fences everywhere if there is even the smallest possibility that an alligator could do this? They are a multi-million dollar business. Couldn't they have done a little more to make people aware? Or would that have damaged their profits?

"No swimming" will not be interpreted by lots of people unfamiliar with these kinds of risks as "no paddling or going near the water".

Verbal warnings from staff are inadequate without other measures like very clear signage explaining exactly what is meant by "no swimming" and that there is a risk of alligator attacks.

People are able to take precautions when they know there is a risk

Able to, yes - prepared to, not necessarily

I can't be the only one who's often seen folk ignore signs, simply not notice the things or even argue that they shouldn't apply to them: "well she's nearly old enough" - "he's only just under the height restriction" - "I'm the parent and it should be my decision" etc. And why do so many say they'd have assumed this / not known that / believed some thing else? What's wrong with asking if something seems unclear?

Except to fully agree it was an appalling accident and a terrible tragedy I can't comment on this particular case as I don't know the family and wasn't there. Forgive my frustration though, but I honestly can't help wondering if - even if there'd been 20ft high, neon lit signs saying "MAN EATING GATORS!!!" - some wouldn't "assume" they were like the big guy in Jaws: plastic, animatronic and all-part-of-the-show

I've been to Disney many times and can't remember any mention of gators. That hardly means anything, I suppose.

If I saw a sign that said 'no swimming' I would interpret that to mean that they didn't have a lifeguard on duty, it wasn't designed for swimming, the lawyers hadn't vetted it, etc. I would consider that a far bendier rule than 'Danger: Alligators'.

If there actually are alligators in the lagoon (which sadly, we now know to be true) - why not just say Alligators In Lagoon instead of No Swimming?

You can make lots of arguments that swimming when there's a no swimming sign is really foolish and I agree with them, but I'd guess there are plenty of bodies of water that say 'no swimming' for legal reasons.