Accident of sorts at Disney in Florida, may be upsetting

[CheerfulYank]

A two year old was dragged into the lagoon by an alligator a few hours ago and hasn't been seen since.

It's so awful I feel like I can't breathe. I cannot imagine how scared he/she was and what the parents are feeling.

Accounts vary but apparently they were sitting on the beach either waiting for fireworks or having movie night. It's just too awful. I'm sure it was supposed to be a wonderful trip and now this.

I know the chances that child will be found alive are almost nothing, but I am hoping against hope that he or she is. I just cannot imagine.

I think this thread has been very "non judgemental", no one clapping themselves on the back

Just terrible for the family, so sad

i dont see how posting pictures of a beach saying it doesnt look unsafe has any relevence. If youre in countries with dangerous wildlife, thats what makes the beach unsafe, not how spectacular. the beach is. It isnt the UK where nothings going to bite you. How could this happen at disney - well disney isnt ACTUALLY magical. Its a real place, built on an alligator swamp

Mummytime - they do remove alligators all the time, but only when they exceed 4 feet. And I'm sure some swim in and out undetected. Also, it's an open waterway, it's like trying to clear the ocean of fish surely??

I recall reading a list on a forum about Disney all the places people had seen alligators... In the waterways of splash mountain and jungle cruise, walking around the car park, just outside a villa, there are so many just sunning themselves around the place. I think there are so many of them they're probably impossible to totally control, sadly.

The point of the pictures show how Disney have encouraged people onto the beach without warning them of the dangers.
Yes they've done a good job up until now as this is thankfully and regretfully the only incident. But they could have done more

I stand corrected there was one in 1986 but the child survived.

Bran as baboon has said the point of the picture I posted was to show people how inviting Disney make the man made beaches look and how a family who are on holiday might feel that they are in a safe environment. Disney actually advertised the beaches as part of the appeal to families.

They have found a body

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/15/disney-world-alligator-attack-boy-search

Link

It's natural to think that someone must be to blame when this sort of thing happens. And there's no doubt that Disney will make their signage clearer after this incident.

But IMO there is no judgement needed anywhere here. This is the only incident of its kind in the history of the resort. During which time billions of people have visited.

the thinking about "what could have happened" is pure projection on the part of posters who have been there. Nothing happened to their children, nothing has happened before now and likely nothing will happen again after this incident.

There are family friendly beaches in South Africa with shark nets not far out. And sometimes the Sharks get through, and sometimes people are attacked.

The idea that Disney have played down the dangers has no merit. Before this incident people have played happily on this beach, and they will likely do so again.

It is an absolute tragedy for the family, but the reality is that any tragedy is avoidable, it just can't always be avoided. No doubt when a child drowns in one of disney's swimming pools it could have been avoided, but accidents happen. No doubt when a child is hit by a car it could have been avoided, but it happens. And it is very, very rare for alligators to kill people. Around one every two years among an annual visiting population the size of the UK.

I remember being at Disney and wondering why we couldn't use the 'beach', it looked so inviting.
Now i know why.
My heart goes out to the family of this little boy.

lifeguards were telling people to get out of the water after it happened. So . . . If lifeguards are there, why aren't they preventing people from going in In the first place?
There are no lifeguards on the beach because that's not where people swim. The lifeguard came over from the pool which is next to the beach.

Chip I don't even understand your point. It is heartbreaking that this child died in such a way. I think it makes it harder if you have lost your child when is was so easy to prevent. So yes, children die every day and that is heartbreaking for every family, but when the family have to live with the knowledge that if they had been given important information that would have enabled them to prevent it, that must just add to the pain.

nuttymango Parents would let their children paddle just like I have let me children paddle in the stream. I wouldn't let them swim in it's not clea or safe to swim in, but in the shallow parts, it's normally safe to paddle.

The reason the pictures are relevant is that Disney have built these beaches for people to use. They have been made beautiful and accessible and they positively encourage people to use them. They warn of alligators in other lakes, but don't warn you on the beaches. That makes you feel like this is a relatively safe environment. I think that people are generally aware that there is still wildlife (including snakes), but you wouldn't expect there to be alligators in that place.

WannaBe you are missing the point. When you are swimming in South Africa, there are signs to tell you there are sharks. It is a known risk and you choose where it's a risk you want to take. When you take your child swimming, you know what the risks are. When you queue for a ride in a theme park, all the risks are shown on a sign so you can make an informed decision. This very welcoming beach did not warn anyone that there was a risk of alligator attack. Whilst it is clearly incredibly rare, it was so easy to avoid and clear signage is all that was needed to prevent it.

We've visited DW Florida. We stayed off site but, if we had been staying at one of the lake hotels from what I gather it doesn't say 'stay out of the water', it says 'no swimming'.

Bay Lake, which leads into the lake where the poor boy was snatched, has a water sports place. They offer wake boarding, water skiing, tubing, parasailing etc . If I had been staying there and had seen people using boats to be towed about on the water I'd have assumed the no swimming sign was because of the danger of being hit by a boat.

I'd have assumed paddling, in a shallow area where the water came no higher than ankle level or mid thigh; where a boat wouldn't be anywhere near me, would be safe for my child.

disneyworld.disney.go.com/recreation/contemporary-resort/tubing/ Here's what they advertise as happening in the connecting lake...

But it wasn't just "incredibly rare," this was the first incident of its kind on this beach. Since the resort opened.

It's like telling children not to play in their gardens in parts of the U.K. Because of the chances of attack by urban foxes. We know they exist, there have been incidents of them attacking children, but we don't blame anyone for not warning of the dangers of foxes when someone is attacked by one.

I'm actually really not a Blamer but I have thought a lot about this and I do think WDW are at fault here. There should definitely have been very clear signs indicating the presence of dangerous wild life in the water. I've stayed on a couple of resorts in Florida and there is masses of in your face signage on them.

I think there every chance I would have let my children paddle in that water too, just at the edge and I wouldn't have considered alligators for a second mainly because I would assume that as a man made area there would be protection in place. The scale and the commercialism of the place would lull you into a false sense of security and I think that's true for most people. There should have been many signs indicating that alligators were there and what could possibly happen. I consider myself fairly intelligent but I know this could have been my family because it's highly likely I would have made the same choices.

I don't think people are judging.... i think it's more to do with the fact that there are no warning signs of alligators being in the water. A no swimming sign is not a alligator warning! The beach from what i see in the pictures is set up for families to have fun on. Exactly what this poor family were doing! I certainly would have been doing the same if i hadn't been warned. Any child death is horrendous but the family witnessing that i can't even begin to comprehend. The parents did what every other family would do not knowing what could possibly happen! My sister was there last year and played on the same beach with her 3 year old daughter and she was never made aware. As for speculation i understand the fact to be that there are no signs warning of alligators in the lake! Disney can put signs up for height restriction signs for safety but nothing warning of alligators! As for sparing a thought for the family that is all i see from the people on here as most people have the same opinion that it could have been prevented with clear signage and warnings regarding the lakes around Disney. RIP little man. My heart breaks for his poor family x

I do think that if the reason (or one of the reasons) the signs say 'no swimming' is because of the presence of alligators, then it does need to be much more explicit.
That would mean that they have identified this as a risk, however small, but not made that clear to those visiting.

But foxes aren't a general threat, alligators are.
Why, when around the other lakes are there signs to warn you of the dangers, but there are no such signs on the beaches?
People are able to take precautions when they know there is a risk, they don't swim in the lake because the sign tells them not to. Just change the "No Swimming. Steep drop off" sign to say "Alligators. Keep Out of the Water"

I think the fact that there has never been an attack of any kind on this beach is more of an indication that WDW thought they had alligators under control in the area.

The fact that attacks are so incredibly rare throughout the state of Florida would indicate that they believed the beach to be safe. And no swimming in the water wasn't based purely on alligator risk it was based on numerous factors.

What a tragedy for the family.

There never having been an attack before doeasn't mean there has been low risk. Disney will probably have done risk assessments etc based on evidence of alligators in the water and made the unfortunate decision not to give warnings.

But was alligator risk one of the factors? That's my question.
I don't think WDW are totally at fault here, this is clearly a tragic accident and I'm sure the staff are devastated.
However, risk assessment/management isn't just about assessing the likelihood of something happening, but must take into account the potential impact and how the risk can be eliminated or reduced.
I don't think that the comparison with foxes is very meaningful as it's not practical for people to stay out of their back gardens, but it is practical to advise people staying in a holiday resort of the presence of alligators and sensible safety precautions they can take.
Of course, that's no guarantee a tragic accident won't happen and I'm sure investigations into this incident will identify any steps that could be taken to reduce the risk in future.

Alligator risks would have been one of the obvious risks considered in the area, a legal case would look at what was done and what decisions were made and based on.

A sign saying "no swimming" would not lead the average person to assume paddling was unsafe, especially with water sports going on nearby.

Those pictures show a beautiful looking beach with a chance to relax with a film in the evening.

If I knew gators were in that water I wouldn't be sitting anywhere near the water in the first place since gators can move just as quick on land as they can under water.

They need to put a sign up SOMEWHERE and EVERYWHERE that there are gators in the water. Make it as clear as possible

I do think WDW are at fault here.

Yes, I knew Florida was gator-central. I have also seen alligator warning signs on Disney, but away from the main resorts - more in the waterway/swamp type areas (hard to describe, but in between all the properly developed bits).

There aren't signs near the main hotel beaches warning against alligators. And, given WDW knew they were there, and knew they were dealing with them constantly, there should have been.

WDW have been incredibly lucky that there haven't been more accidents, or that it has taken this long for an accident to happen. Because luck is all it is.

Hotel guests are encouraged onto those beaches, to watch movies, to watch the fireworks. They are beautiful places, with chair swings, gorgeous sand, no indication whatsoever that there is dangerous wildlife in the waters, and no way of gaining that information. You are not to,d on check in (we have stayed on property several times, it's never been mentioned); it isn't contained in the resort info in the rooms (trust me, I've read it all several times); it isn't mentioned on the info channel on the tv.

There are no swimming signs, but in the absence of any other info, and given that water sports are encouraged on the lakes, and that the beaches are promoted heavily, it is reasonable for guests to assume that is down to lack of lifeguard/deep water/not sanitised to pool standards. That is the assumption I've always made when my gaze passes the No Swimming signs.

Add to that the fact that everything at WDW is micromanaged to a ridiculous degree, a fact of which they are very proud, to ensure an as near to perfect holiday as is possible, and you are left with the fact that it is entirely reasonable for guests to assume that the shoreline of a beach where families with young children are encouraged to gather, after dark, is safe.

And it is pure luck, from the sound of it, that this didn't happen years ago. The fact that there hasn't been an accident for many years doesn't mean that WDW have not been negligent in their duties in not informing guests of the risks.

Disney know that there are gators in that lake.
They take steps to remove the ones that get too big.
Around other lakes there are warning signs.
Disney have deliberately chosen to not put signs on the beaches telling people there are gators because they don't want to put people off from using them. That action has put people at risk. Up until now that risk has paid off, now a family have paid an unimaginable price.

The comparison to foxes is just ridiculous. If you went into a forest that you had paid to enter, where animals are present that pose a threat to life and are always dangerous if you get too close, you would expect to be warned so that you could keep yourself safe.