Accident of sorts at Disney in Florida, may be upsetting

[CheerfulYank]

A two year old was dragged into the lagoon by an alligator a few hours ago and hasn't been seen since.

It's so awful I feel like I can't breathe. I cannot imagine how scared he/she was and what the parents are feeling.

Accounts vary but apparently they were sitting on the beach either waiting for fireworks or having movie night. It's just too awful. I'm sure it was supposed to be a wonderful trip and now this.

I know the chances that child will be found alive are almost nothing, but I am hoping against hope that he or she is. I just cannot imagine.

[Artandco]

Dizzy - that list is rubbish. It includes all crime so basically most populated has most people so most crime from that list. A 'crime' can be kids stealing penny sweets here. Almost all that crime is burglary ( wealthy houses), or stealing ( cars or goods in stores). Very very little is actual bodily crime.

[dizzyfucker]

So go to the Met website Artandco, they have a breakdown of crime. Have a look for yourself rather than making it up. In fact put your own postcode in and see the results because it is far from kids stealing penny sweets. You seem to be really upset that I'm knocking London. Sorry about that but I don't find it to be one of the best places I've lived and it has nothing to do with this thread.

[mummytime]

dizzy - you have issues.

Sorry but why come onto a thread about a tragedy in Orlando to say how unsafe and how much you hate London????
Yes there is crime in London, still most of the statistics are domestic (sexual assaults are predominantly by people the victim knows) and theft, some of which is petty. Crime in London is not worse than a lot of other places, and is also better than another whole list of places (possibly even including parts of Orlando).
There are though no Alligators in the Thames (and very few poisonous snakes, and no fire ants...).
Some people on MN love London, others hate it - c'est la vie!

None of this is relevant to Disney probably being a bit negligent. And Visitors to Orlando not making themselves aware of the dangers - and maybe not talking enough to locals. I have known about the dangers of Alligators - and we used to look at the lake behind our villa on our last trip, and wonder.

Overall hopefuly this will remind all of us to find out about the local area and any hazards, next time we go to a new place.

[dizzyfucker]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Someone was worried about visiting Florida because of this attack. I said most of rural Florida where there are lots of alligators is safer than London. I felt safer there and had no crime incidents. That you are more likely to be the victim of knife crime in London than be attacked by an alligator in Florida and this attack should not put people off going to Florida. Just plucked London out the air, next time I know, pick a different city. Jeez.

[Inkanta]

'you are more likely to be the victim of knife crime in London than be attacked by an alligator in Florida'

Aw

[mummytime]

Dizzy - if you are talking about knife crime then you mean a different group of boroughs www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/revealed-londons-worst-areas-for-knife-crime-a3121071.html and the victims are "usually" in their teens or twenties. So not the typical Mumsnetter.

Yes Alligators are not that large a cause of injury/death in Florida - knife/gun crime or road accidents are far more likely to happen. But most people try to minimise those risks (staying out of dangerous areas and taking care when driving). If people don't realise there are alligators there then they will not take risk avoidance measures.

[Ellle]

I understood the point that Dizzy was trying to make to put an alligator's attack in Florida into perspective.

Well, due to this tragedy I cannot see that people won't realise anymore that there are alligators in the Disney lagoon and any large body of water in Florida. And hopefully as a consequence of this tragedy, signs in WDW will be changed to be more explicit and awareness of risks raised so that no other family and child has to go through this again.

[Tattieboggle]

I understood the point that Dizzy was trying to make to put an alligator's attack in Florida into perspective

So did I.

[dizzyfucker]

The "usual" mumsnetters are mums, mums of teens and 20 somethings. Knife crime and knife culture is a growing problem, it affects all the youth, not just the gang members. Muggings are increasing too and increasingly being carried out with knives, so this affects everyone. But all of that is irrelevant to this thread.

I have never said I hate London, it is my hometown. I didn't particularly like living there but I am not a city person. I wasn't keen on living in Rio, Santiago, Miami or Salt Lake City either. Like I said, if I had mentioned one of those cities, I doubt people would have jumped all over it. But those cities are not most mumsnetter's reality. So the comparison I was trying to make would not work.

Avoiding Florida because you might get attacked by an alligator or shot is the same as avoiding London because you might get mugged with a knife or caught up in bomb blast. In most people's eyes it would be an overreaction. That was the point I was making. I am glad some people got it!

[Blu]

The risk of an alligator attack surely changes drastically depending on whether you are ankle deep in a lagoon at dusk or not,

And the likelihood that you would enable your toddler to stand ankle deep in a lagoon at dusk surely changes depending on whether you knew there may be alligators there, or not.

[mummytime]

Blu has expressed my point exactly and much better than me.

I'm not sure knife crime is increasing - it was less mentioned but not uncommon when I was a teen. And there is so much gentrification that places that were "dodgy" are pretty safe now.

[belleandsnowwhite]

Walt Disney World have started constructing a fence at the shoreline of the lake.

[80Kgirl]

I'm not surprised, bellandsnowwhite.

[MaryPoppinsPenguins]

Alligators can climb fences, apparently. I suppose it's more to keep the people out of the water than vice versa.

[Hulababy]

Yes, alligators can climb. Its why you often see fences that lean inwards, esp at the top, round Florida as it is too hard to go over the top then.
They are also known to have walked into buildings, by triggering the pressure sensors on automatic doors.

WDW beaches and marinas remain closed
Fence is going up around the lagoon to try to prevent/ encourage people not to go in the lagoon waters.
They've already said there will be many more signs, warning of alligators in the area.
The jungle ride which used to have a joke about watching your children near the alligator (a pretend one on the ride) has had those lines removed.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

They can climb trees too ...

If anyone thinks it unlikely, consider the reptiles you see in a pet shop, climbing up the side of cages, onto branches, etc. Alligators are reptiles too - admittedly bloody big ones - so perhaps, really, it's not so surprising?

[CheerfulYank]

It irritates me that people (not here!) are saying there's no accountability or common sense anymore, etc. It's just silly. Of course there is. Here in the States a few years back, a poor little boy died because his mother stood him on top of a zoo enclosure so he could see some sort of wild dog exhibit. He fell in :( She sued but the zoo was held not liable because, well, that was common sense!

I feel like this is completely different.

[Artandco]

I do kinda agree we do need to be more accountable for ourselves though.

It pisses me off when we have signs everywhere ie cliff edge, don't go close. Well no shit, people should be able to work that out themselves

[NeedACleverNN]

It's the way things are now isn't it?

Like a bag of peanuts having the warning "may contain nuts"

Well you would hope it would really wouldn't you?

[Artandco]

Yes. And too many signs mean we now ignore anything important.

'Do not enter' on a door makes me want to open it and see what's inside

[CheerfulYank]

I also believe in common sense and accountability but I feel the parents in the alligator case were not in any way negligent. "No swimming" means different things in different parts of the country, whereas "Danger! Alligators" is pretty clear.

But in the other case I mentioned (believe that was also a two year old boy, poor baby :( )....well, all over the world I think most people would know not to stand their child on top of a fence leading to a pit full of vicious animals!

[SouthWestmom]

www.cbsnews.com/news/parents-of-2-year-old-mauled-by-wild-dogs-settle-pittsburgh-zoo-lawsuit/

But even that story isn't quite as straight forward - zoo settled out of court and there was evidence they knew there was a risk and didn't act.

[iknowimcoming]

I see Disney have now fenced off the beach areas

[AnecdotalEvidence]

I think that Disney have done the right thing. The fences are very simple and won't spoil the enjoyment of the beach or the look of the place.
It's now clear to visitors that you need to keep out of the water and there are alligators and snakes in the area.
People can still choose to ignore the signs and go for a swim, but they have been warned and there will only ever be a tiny minority of people who will be that intentionally stupid.