In monetary terms what constitutes 'middle class'?

[Monkeytrousers]

DP thinks it well over 50k a year and that 50k a year is still aspirational middle class.

Haitch? Thats a new one. whats it mean?

it's a way of pronouncing the letter 'h', paula.

Oh I see, sorry.

I don't think it's dependent on how much you earn. It's a lifestyle. I believe that people who are middle-class tend to be university educated, but a lot choose to send their children to private schools and must therefore have a reasonable income. Upper class tends to mean that you have "old money" and land (in a serious sense), if you ask me. Most upper class people are broke as their estates drain a lot of income!!

Karen Fox, who wrote the book I mentioned says that for the English, everything is about class. What you wear, what you eat,your politics and that the English think about it constantly. Do yall think this is true?

DH's paymaster (not exactly boss) is a working class man, but fairly well-educated and filthy rich. But he drinks in the pub with the lads, then goes home to his huge mansion (which used to be a hotel, thats how big it is). His daughter attends boarding school and rides ponies to a very high competition level. But he is not middle class. My upbringing was more middle class than his, but I don't have a pot to P* in.

Middle class is about attitudes, education and responses to situations and is entirely subjective. One person's middle class is another's 'posh' or 'aspirational working class'. Besides, hasn't anyone noticed the erosion of the working class? We now seem to have a humungous middle class and an even bigger underclass - what happened to the good old working class? Everyone seems to have dropped out! Spend ten minutes watching Jeremy Kyle and decide if you could describe the people on it as working class. My old Grandad would turn in his grave.

Mumpbump, around here the children at the private schools are most definitely NOT from traditionally middle class homes. More like Footballer types or builders who have amassed a good few quid. You know, the bleached blonde Mum in 4wd going off shopping for the rest of the day, only reads Jackie Collins and appears at 'functions' covered by 'Nottinghamshire Life'.

But don't you think that by denying their roots so totally they run the risk of alienating themelves from their children? By the time the children grow up they will either have nothing in common with their parents or be embarassed by them. Our aspirational society has alot to answer for.

But I think middle class people tend to prioritise education and so will sacrifice other luxuries to sell their children to private schools...

BTW, I agree about the alienation. My dh's niece goes to a private school with a lot of very wealthy people and spent the whole evening going on about how much money they had, what cars they drove etc. Probably inevitable, but very sad that material aspects appear to have assumed such a signifcance for her... But I come from a middle-class family that is anti-materialism, so I'm biased!!

I think aleination is inevitable at that age no matter what class you are.

Accent definitely is no clue - I sound completely different to my brothers. Perhaps because they have 'different' friends to me and I went to drama school so lots of voice work. I have been accused of being 'posh' and 'stuck up' because of the way I sound but you coulds not find a more down-to-earth person. My dad was a mechanic and my mum worked in tesco, we lived in a council house and regularly shooped in charity shops (I still do!) I paid for myself to go to drama school by slogging it out in a resturant and Jaeger factory but people just presume.

shinyhappy etc - yes, you will step up a class when you get your degree. you are halfway there now in fact. and no, you won't take your family with you if you mean your mum dad and siblings, but yes you will take your children with you if they're still young. I don't think that's very complicated is it? you are socially mobile.

schneebly - I think you are middle class too because you went to drama school. you jsut started out as working class

you can be middle class and still be down to earth btw.

hmmm I just feel that I grew up working class and still feel working class - I may have gone to drama school but I am no 'luvvy' and I dont have a fancy job or anything. I work a few hours a week in a restuarant, 4 hours at a youth club and do drama workshops and storytelling sessions occasionally but I am mostly at home looking after the boys and studying. My house is definitely not middle class!

Has anyone else read 'Status Anxiety' by Alain de Boton? It's fascinating. I'm only a few chapters in, but so far he's talked about the fact that we perceive ourselves by comparison. It's not enough that we just 'are', we have to be better than someone else, the 'well at least I don't give my dc fruit shoots' or 'my dc go to Eton, where do yours go' scenario.

It reminds me of that Monty Python sketch. You know, the one that goes 'I look down on him because he is working class. I look up to him because he is upper class' etc. Hysterical.

If there was one thing I learnt from growing up, one never talks about religion, money or class.

"you can be middle class and still be down to earth btw. "

I agree with this BTW - just dont like being called 'stuck-up' because I pronounce things in a different way to most locals.

I am lucky enough to know a wonderful Lady who is definatly card carrying Upper Class, and she is very down to earth, I don't think thats a class thing.

my house isn't middle class either but I am. not proud of it or anything, I just am. see my post about choices below.

I am lucky enough to know a wonderful Lady who is definatly card carrying Upper Class, and she is very down to earth, I don't think thats a class thing.

Haven't read the thread, have only skimmed it but I loved Watching The English, can't remember what she said about class specifically though and I am tempted to buy Status Anxiety.

Who wrote Status Anxiety?

We have quite good social mobility in the UK compared to many countries. We're lucky really.

Pardon me Senora, but bollocks will I "step up a class" when I have my degree! I will just be the same old me, but with a piece of paper to prove the level of intelligence I had all along. Class won't come into it. This is what I am trying to get at.. there is no definitive rule; people, particular these days, just can't be accurately classified, an rightly so. Except to categorise them perhaps as Filthy Rich, Rich, Well Off, etc etc right down to Dirt Shit Poor .. but that, to me, says little about class.

Oh God, who is it who says I have class issues.. . NDP I think.. . I suppose I have in that I think it is all crap and that this need peple have to classify people just emphasises inquality, and not in a proactive way.