Misbah's mother is not pursuing custody

[JanH]

Guardian report

"A combination of ill-health, the emotional strain of the legal case and the recent birth of her latest child were all thought to be reasons why Mrs Campbell had stopped the legal action. She was believed to have had a strong chance of winning her case and, if she had, it would have forced Misbah to return to Scotland."

What about the stepfather locking the mother and baby out of the house in the pouring rain in November? It's not exactly a stable happy home environment, is it?

and I'm sure that some poor woam, whopped in the streey with a bike chain would be delighted to read you downplaying her pain, demoralisation and degredation.

and the economic argument is bullshit. they schooled the boys. But girls were unworthy.

Most of the list of bans was for both women and men, e.g. photographs were banned, period, not specifically for women. Or the ban of women patients being seen by males, the converse is also ture. Male patients could not be seen by female doctors.

There is a lot that one can glean from the way the Taleban had to be brought up, in refugee camps, but already this thread has diverted from its main point.

Personally, I wouldn't let my daughter live with a drunk mother who in turn lives with a violently drunk partner.

You can have that honour, if you like.

What an idiotic point to make. There WERE NO WOMEN DOCTORS! They had all been sacked and left to starve.

and there certainly weren't going to be any female doctors in future, what with education for women being banned and all.

The only reason the Taliban weren't herding women into gas chamber is because they were needed for breeding purposes.

Only someone who really, really hated women would support the Taliban.

Personally I think given the choice between a violently drunk mother and a bunch of men who hate her so much that they would let her die if she was ill, I'll take the drunk mother myself.

At least she would have the chance of escaping from the violently drunk mother. There was no escape from the violently mysogynist Taliban

wheras wone in the Taliban regime of afghanistan had the 8Honour* of being shot while they carried their terribly ill toddler to seek medical treatment.

Vile , vile vile. These people were women hating monsters.

From what people have posted on MN, the wearing of the veil (let alone the burka) is volentary under Islam, some women choose to do so, other do not. You are now supporting a group of people who beat women in the street for not meeting a set of standards chosen by men. Now we see what your standards are PD. Wear a burka or be beaten in the street.

How much choice did those women have? None. Where was their freedome to choose? They didn't have any.

Aloha is right. they were Nazis.

and there were no women teacher or doctors, and plenty exsisted before the Taliban. they were banned from working.

Does she have any normal relatives?

Oh, and it would seem that non muslims had to wear a stitched on badge that showed that they were non muslim.

Now, what does that remind us of people?

Nazis in turbans indeed, aloha

Blimey.

The Taliban were even worse than I thought they were.

Where's all this info coming from? (Any interesting links, Aloha and MB?)

Rawa, which PD will trash because they are revolutionary women . Women who demanded their rights to equality before the law.

here is a thought for you PD, if the men were doing the looting and the raping, why were the women prevented from leaving the houses? It was men who were guilty of wrongdoing, why punish the innocent?

This thread has deviated somewhat.

I think, on balance, Misbah is in the right place. I think some journalists have taken a spin on the situation to suit their own agenda.

WRT to everything else - I second all of what MB said.

I agree that living with a drunk mother on balance would be far less awful than living in a society where I was hated and reviled from birth because of my gender .

I read soemwhere recently that more women die in childbirth in Afghanistan than any other country in the world, largely because so many medical facilities were destroyed by Taleban and because midwifery is virtually non existant owing to the ban on women working. And many men will not allow their chattels - oops, wives - to be seen by male doctors.

What a great achievement.why not just murder all girls at birth and have done with it?

Agree that the Taliban were misogynist Nazis in turbans.

Peacedove, who said Misbah's mother is a drunk? Is there any evidence to back that up? Or is it just an allegation made by the father who clearly hates his ex-wife, the mother of his children?

Peacedove - I don't think many of us are defending Misbah's mother's parenting - but in all honesty, would you send your daughter to live under a taleban regime? And if you did, would she be happy to go?

Message withdrawn

Message withdrawn

Maternal death rates in PG and delivery are 6 in a hundred. In some areas the rates are as high as 16 per 100, one of the highest in the world. Afghanstan is one of the few countries in the world where men live longer than woman.

If it wasn't so horrific, it would almost be funny to hear someone say that they women were prevented from leaving their homes to 'protect' them from assault. The punishment for leaving their homes would then be to be beaten in the street....to suffer an assault. So please PD, don't use this facile appology for the actions of these hateful people. The woman were kept in their homes because the Taliban wanted the women servile in their homes.

Prior to the Taliban 70% of school teachers were women. There was no shortage of teachers until the Taliban made women working illegal! And to educate children the main requirement is a teacher. I can teach better in a well apponted classroom, but I can teach effectivly at home, sitting on the floor. Oh, but the Taliban have killed women for starting home schooling for girls.

They want the women ignorent, it makes them easier to kick around that way. 85% of women in Afghanistan cannot read or write. Do you know that some estimates state that 25% of afghani men regularly beat their wives? I can link to a picture of one poor woman who's husband poured petrol over her and then set her on fire. I'm sure she burned, and suffered safe in the knowlage that she was being 'protected'

I can't understand anyone who wants to be a good muslim supporting the Taliban frankly.

As I understand it, the Koran exhorts all muslims to seek education. So by defintion, the Taliban have got to be bad muslims as they went out of their way to block 50% of the population from doing that. How can any muslim support that?

Quite.

some interesting quotes

"Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."
From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed

"None but a noble man treats women in an honorable manner. And none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully".
Prophet Mohammed
According to Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, the Prophet is reported to have said:
If a daughter is born to a person and he brings her up, gives her a good education and trains her in the arts of life, I shall myself stand between him and hell-fire.
(Kanz al-Ummal).

How praiseworthy are the women of Ansar that their modesty does not prevent them from attempts at learning and the acquisition of knowledge.
(Sahih Muslim, Kitab al Tahrat).

Muslims who advance conservative views on female affairs...are normally very literal in their understanding of texts; but they tendentiously opt for an understanding that suits their prejudice.
Dr Hassan Al-Turabi

I think that you may be close to doing the latter, PD in your 'support' for the Taliban

Message withdrawn

I have met students from the madrassas, and they are most wonderful people.

It is wrong to say that the condition of women was better before the Taleban. The warlords killed and raped at will.

After the Taleban, the women's lot should have improved according to you. It hasn't. It has actually worsened, because there is no law and order.

The problem is that under the stress and dislocations of war, the Afghans of all persuations have taken to the old culture.

RAWA, the Revolutionary Afghan Women's Association, is a marginal organisation, always has been. No support among the masses.

I am not defending their treatment of women. What I am sayig is that war on the Afghan people has not improved the lot of the Afghan women.

re Misbah -- Misbah, a Muslim, was "disgusted when she [her mother] attempted to persuade her to take alcohol and get drunk on the occasion of last Christmas".

this: "the "promiscuous environment is likely to destroy and erode the moral fibre of her [Misbah's] life".

this: Misbah Rana said she wept when she learned that her repatriation to Scotland was being sought through the courts.

"Why is my mother doing that? Why can't she let me be?" the girl asked."If she really loved me she would let me be where I want to be. I am happy here. If my mama comes to take me back, I am just going to run away again."

Mrs Campbell's eldest daughter, Tahmina, 18, and her son Adam, 16, who ran away from his mother's home in October 2005, alleged that Mrs Campbell regularly smoked cannabis, and suffered from a condition that left her shaking all the time.

"When things are too much for her, she starts clattering, her hands are shaking and her teeth chattering," said Tahmina. "She takes tablets for that." Adam, who said his mother had occasionally offered him cannabis, said: "I ran away because I was living in a hellhole."

The court papers state that in 1998, Mrs Campbell "suffered an acute mental breakdown" and was treated as an inpatient at a psychiatric hospital in Dumfries. They say that "even now she has not fully recovered from her mental disorder".

So, while she is not herself described as a drunk, but takes drugs; has a history of mental breakdown, lives with a partner who is drunk and violent.

Sorry, not suitable company for my daughter. You can keep her.