is it really possible that Donald trump could be president????? [Part 3]

[Lweji]

Continuing the thread, and in reply to the two last posts of thread 2

Today 08:15 OhYouBadBadKitten

I don't think it is about Trump taking risks, its more that he is a narcisstic sociopath. He feels untouchable in what he says and has no regard for the consequences.

Today 06:53 fourmummy

To be fair, voters know that all political rhetoric mostly comes to nothing (rhetoric = argumentation and persuasion, elevated to an art from in Ancient Greece). Why do you imagine Labour want to introduce votes for 16 year olds? They know that people don't become "more conservative" as they get older-they become wiser to the political process and its lies rhetoric. So what's different with Trump? Why hasn't his unbelievably unlikeable public and private persona sunk him?

Answer=risk

He is not a ready-rolled, ready-prepped and ready-to-go politician (think Blair's son parachuted into a constituency; MIliband brothers, Clintons). These are not risking much because they were cast in the role when they were made. We know that this is the case with, certainly, Clinton (numerous interviews with aides attest to this; ditto for the others). Voters are doing a risk assessment of his risks and have decided that he is worth something. It's not as simple as suggesting that if someone votes for him then they must be racist or sexist, as I've seen journos assert. Voters are effectively doing a risk assessment and deciding that given the enormous costs both to him (energy, health, time away from family, reputation, financial, career, historical implications, ) and to his voters (risk of being viewed as sexist, racist, intolerant, asshole), the benefits must outweigh these costs. Very unwise to dismiss ordinary voters as simplistically sexist and racists, as many, many journalists have (shortsightedly) done. Even non-experts are very good at performing cost/benefit analyses

As I said I don't see anything of what he says as taking a risk. Because he is saying what many people want to hear.
As for personal cost, he is clearly someone who enjoys the power, the limelight, the adoration. All that is missing for him is the ultimate power, particularly as he sees other true billionaires taking central stage.
But he doesn't have the heart to be Gates.
So, he's going for the highest office, and on the back of American voters most primal fears.

But...
He's not averse to risk. He's built his empire on it. He's had four bankruptcies. Anyone should be worried about the way he manages risk.

Well he doesn't strike me as the kind of man who surrounds himself with critical analytical thinkers so I'm not sure I'd take the "leaked" memo too seriously

'Well he doesn't strike me as the kind of man who surrounds himself with critical analytical thinkers'

You seem to have forgotten Sarah Palin and Doctor Ben Carson.

Following the Politico article

"Trump terrifies world leaders
And Obama’s reassurances aren’t calming them down.

They're in full-boil panic."

this is what I imagine must have happened.

A world "leader" rings up a Washington official for some help, advice and reassurance.

"Hello, is that Washington?"
"Yes, it is. Don't tell me, let me guess, you're ringing up about Trump?"
"Absolutely, how did you know?"
"Because the phone is ringing off the hook and has been for the past 48 hours. World "leaders" are desperately ringing for advice and reassurance. They're petrified, as the article said "in full-boil panic". Is that the same for you?"
"No, it was even worse for me."
"Got ya, try and hang on in there"
"Last time I rang, you said it would all blow over and Trump would be finished after the New Hampshire Primary. Now I turn on my TV and see crowds of tens and tens of thousands cheering him on while he takes a wrecking ball to the Establishment. What is you latest prognostication, will he be finished after the next Primary? Is there still hope?"
"Afraid not, no hope at all, it's over!"
"Oh my God"
"That's exactly what all the world "leaders" are phoning up and saying. Nothing can stop him. You saw how one of the ex world "leaders" tried to get tough and said "we're not going to pay for that fucking wall"
"Yes, I couldn't believe it, Trump then said "the wall just got ten feet higher" and the Trump fans in the crowd went nuts"
"Yes, the man is a genius"
"But what about all our world "leader" dreams and schemes over climate change, what will Trump mean for our joint plans?"
"It's over, kaput, finito, finis. I suggest you monitor, or get your wonks to monitor, Trump's twitter feed. He spells it all out there. He said it was BULLSHIT. So it's all coming to an end, I am afraid". Let me explain to you what is happening here in America. Everyone, but everyone, is decked out in Trump gear. School children have Make America Great Again hats on, teachers wear "Trump tells it like it is" tee-shirts and the people are rolling on the floor laughing at the "full-boil panic" of the world "leaders".
"Oh my God. What do you suggest I, as a world "leader", do?"
"Do what we are doing, go on Trump's website and buy as much Trump gear, hats, shirts, bumper stickers as you can and join the people. Someone said "if you can't beat them, join them" and thats what we are all doing too. Get yourself a Finally Balls shirt."
"Finally Balls? Do you mean Ed Balls, PPE Oxford?"
"No, a Trump Finally Balls shirt. The shirts say "Trump 2016 Finally Someone with Balls". Get it and wear it to the next G20 meeting, that is what the other world "leaders" are doing right now. Start sucking up to Trump. But hurry up because the Finally Balls shirts are selling out fast."
"Thank you very much for you advice."
"OK, got to let you go, phones are ringing off the hook frm world "leaders". Goodbye and good luck, you're going to need it."

The world leader then heard the strains of the classic Roy Orbison song "It's Over"

"Setting suns before they fall, Echo to you that's all that's all
But you'll see lonely sunset after all

It's over It's over It's over It's over"

and the world "leader" wept silently as he could hear the sounds of the people, no doubt dressed in Trump gear, rolling on the floor laughing. He immediately typed in "Trump gear" and "Finally Balls shirt" on google and snapped up the last remaining supplies.

"Golden days before they end
Whisper Secrets to the wind
The people don't believe world "leaders" anymore

Tender nights before they fly
Send falling stars that seem to cry
The people don't want world "leaders" anymore
It;s over

There's someone new (Trump it's true) We're through We're through
It's over It's over It's over

All the rainbows in the sky
Start to weep, then say goodbye
You won't be seeing expenses any more

It's ovvvvver.

Trump 2016!

His people think he is going to win the nomination. A memo was leaked where they predict he will make it.

Stone me, what a surprise. They're hardly going to say anything different, are they? And there are genuine leaks and staged leaks. I would be prepared to put a large bet on this leak coming into the second category.

"there are genuine leaks and staged leaks. I would be prepared to put a large bet on this leak coming into the second category."

Absolutely agree. It sounds like a master stratagem to put the fear of God and the wind in the willows up the other side and to embolden and encourager the Trump camp.

Claig
Have you just accused Sarah Palin of being a "critical analytical thinker"?

No, claig, staging a leak is never a "master stratagem" because staged leaks have been around for decades: people can tell a staged leak when they see one. It simply signals that you're a dickhead, which would be about right for Trump and his supporters.

Quote: 'Well he doesn't strike me as the kind of man who surrounds himself with critical analytical thinkers'

You seem to have forgotten Sarah Palin and Doctor Ben Carson.

I don't really understand what you're saying here - that Palin and Carson are "thinkers"? (Is there any evidence for this?) Or that they have been successful despite a notable absence of critical or analytical or indeed any kind thought?

If the latter, I suppose it depends what you qualify as successful - Palin successfully engineered the election of the first black president, by being the stupidest person ever to run for the vice presidency, and Carson had his 15 minutes in the republican limelight despite (or perhaps because of) having no coherent or rational opinions on anything at all.

'I don't really understand what you're saying here '

It's called a joke, a laugh, like an oxymoron. They are not the sharpest pencils in the case but it doesn't matter, Trump fans can laugh at them and at our side, because we have the confidence that we will win and it won't be due to "critical analytic thinking" because that is not what counts. What counts is the people and we have the people on our side.

Never forget the big picture

"Trump terrifies world leaders"

They're scared and the people are laughing. Trump can't wait to start on Hillary. He says "we are going to have so much fun" and the people know he ain't lying like Lyin' Ted does. It's a laugh because they are terrified that Trump will win which is why all their insults about Trump's team don't matter diddley squat.

“They’re scared and they’re trying to understand how real this is,” said one American official in touch with foreign leaders. “They all ask. They follow our politics with excruciating detail. They ask: ‘What is this Trump phenomenon?
...
Leaders, members of their governments, even their aides are so spooked that they don’t want to say anything, and many privately admit that it’s because they think he’ll win""

How much better can it get? Finally someone on the people's side that has put the fear of God into them. No one expected it, no one foresaw it, everyone thought they would carry on lying and swindling us forever, but now they have met their match. It's the greatest show on earth and no wonder Finally Balls shirts are selling out as fast as they can be stocked. It's a people's revolution and

"Trump terrifies world leaders"

Rock'n'roll. USA.

It's called a joke, a laugh, like an oxymoron.

See, this is the problem with your posting.

If we treat them as serious, you come back saying they're a joke.
If we treat them as jokes, you act as if you are a victim and we're being unreasonable.

Are we supposed to take your posts seriously or as a joke?
I'm all for treating them as jokes and poking fun at silly Trump fans and supporters.

'Are we supposed to take your posts seriously or as a joke? '

You are supposed to be able to discern which is which, but if you can't work it out, treat it as a joke.

You said

Claig
Have you just accused Sarah Palin of being a "critical analytical thinker"?

You understood that it was funny, you just didn't realise I had done it intentionally.

'If we treat them as jokes, you act as if you are a victim and we're being unreasonable. '

No, I don't care what you say as long as you don't indulge in personal attacks which I think are unreasonable.

Actually, it's the writer who has the responsibility of explaining what they mean clearly. For example, if they're joking or not.
Definitely not the responsibility of the reader.
And you shouldn't imply that people are stupid for not understanding when you're joking if your style remains the same and you give no indication of when you're joking.
Not giving such indication doesn't make the reader look stupid for not understanding you. Rather the reverse.

Isn't a joke supposed to be funny? or is that an oldfashioned point of view?

Claig, you post such utter fact-free drivel in such enormous quantities that one has to assume that it's all intended as a big joke, or that none of it is.

Honestly, this section of Mumsnet seeks to have seceded from planet Earth right now. There is a chap on the Obama thread recommending that the UK start sinking merchant ships to bring US (or possibly world) trade to a halt. Almost makes Trump look sane!

'Actually, it's the writer who has the responsibility of explaining what they mean clearly. For example, if they're joking or not.
Definitely not the responsibility of the reader. '

No it's not because that would be telegraphing a joke which spoils the surprise. You either have that sense of humour or you don't, you either get a joke or you don't, if they pass you by, then you have a different sense of humour. That is why different authors and comedians appeal to different people because different people have different senses of humour.

'And you shouldn't imply that people are stupid for not understanding when you're joking if your style remains the same and you give no indication of when you're joking. '

I am not implying you are stupid, just that you don't share that sense of humour, but some people will get it without being told.

'Not giving such indication doesn't make the reader look stupid for not understanding you. Rather the reverse.'

There is no stupidity about it, just a divergence of understanding. Some people don't get Monty Python and some think it is great.

("Seeks" should say seems, obviously.)

'Isn't a joke supposed to be funny? or is that an oldfashioned point of view?'

A joke is funny and I posted it because I thought it was funny. I will have to explain it which ruins it.

The poster said

'Well he doesn't strike me as the kind of man who surrounds himself with critical analytical thinkers'

and I said

You seem to have forgotten Sarah Palin and Doctor Ben Carson.

Sarah Palin is the opposite of a critical analytic thinker and Ben Carson is not far behind, which creates dissonance which creates tension and confusion (which is why Lweji said "Have you just accused Sarah Palin of being a "critical analytical thinker"?" ) and the confusion is resolved by laughter once the intention is understood.

'Claig, you post such utter fact-free drivel in such enormous quantities that one has to assume that it's all intended as a big joke, or that none of it is.'

Then don't read it or treat it all as a joke and don't ask.

No, claig, you're wrong.

What you do here is beyond sharing sense of humour.

It may seem obvious to you, but most of what you write reads as inane drivel, seemingly when you're being serious.
When I treated it mostly as a joke, I was accused of being nasty to you and you went along with the nasty accusation.

Anyway, I'll just really ignore your posts as it's impossible to discern from what you mean as a joke and what you don't.

And I realise that was a muddled post. I'm getting tired and off to bed.

'When I treated it mostly as a joke, I was accused of being nasty to you and you went along with the nasty accusation. '

I don't care if you treat it as a joke, but I think calling what I write "drivel" is nasty as I have never called what you write "drivel". I don't spend my time to write "drivel". You can agree or disagree with it, but I argue a case for what I say, I think it through, it is not "drivel" and nor is what you write.

'Anyway, I'll just really ignore your posts as it's impossible to discern from what you mean as a joke and what you don't.'

OK, that is probably a good thing to do.

There is a clear pattern of claig claiming that her objects of hero-worship are joking and being hilariously funny and clever whenever they are caught out in blatant lies, bigotry, rudeness, utter stupidity and misjudgment. Therefore, when she claims that she herself is joking, I'm afraid I don't believe it. The trouble with the Sarah Palin "joke" is that we know only too well that she is perfectly capable of claiming that Palin is a critical analytical thinker, and frankly even now I strongly suspect that she intended that 100% seriously.

'and frankly even now I strongly suspect that she intended that 100% seriously.'

Good jike, Augusta. No one can claim that Sarah Palin is a ctitical analytic thinker; she has many qualities, but that is not one of them.

Trump on top form, joking about how being presidential is easy for him. They are trying to force him to become "more presidential" because they know that will ruin his appeal to the people.