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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Nicky Morgan's thread continued (MNers calling for Lucy Powell to do webchat)

302 replies

Mner · 23/03/2016 10:32

Following on from Nicky Morgan MP's one sided "webchat" see here...

Active petitions against academisation are here:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/124702
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/124747

Guardian article is here

You can write to your MP: www.writetothem.com/

Good luck to everyone at the demonstrations today. I can't attend

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 24/03/2016 19:54

This reply has been deleted

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cgehansen · 24/03/2016 20:18

"but if there's no competition, where is the incentive for local authorities to oust less-than-good headteachers"

That's a very bleak view of what motivates people to work in eductation. The incentive for an LA is it's their job to improve schools any many of them do it very well. In fact the speed of improvement in LA schools is faster than in academies. And there are plenty of examples of them improving schools with new headteachers with no need for daft uniforms and consultants lining their pockets who happen to be mates of an academy chain sponsor.

curluponthesofa · 24/03/2016 20:25

Planetarium - I think when someone comes and posts on a thread (a few threads in this case) and continually argues against every point made by other posters, as you have done, they are bound to question the motive behind it. If Nicky Morgan / DoE had done their job properly, there wouldn't be so many questions, or assumptions being made. Why do you feel the need to do the government's job for them?
There have been hundreds of posts on here (and on other forums) from parents, teachers, grandparents, school staff and more, all saying they are genuinely alarmed and worried about this proposal. That in itself is relevant. The government has done zilch to assuage those concerns or show they have listened at all.
Your aim seems to be to prove than none of us understand what we are talking about. If you are really that informed and interested then why not write your own blog post?
In the meantime, I think we should take up MNHQ offer of someone from the think tank, at least then we could get some answers. There are lots of good questions on this thread, like Valentine's.
Then, invite Lucy Powell to do a blog / Q&A.
I'd like to find out when Labour are actually going to pull their finger out and do something. Because the way it stands at the moment I will be voting Monster Raving Loony at the next election.... (Do they still exist? I do hope so!)

jellyfrizz · 24/03/2016 20:26

Yes cgehansen! Surely it should be about everyone working together to provide the best education for children. Collaboration not competition.

mercifulTehlu · 24/03/2016 20:28

Apparently in Finland there is no formal inspection system, no testing until approaching GCSE age and no league tables. As a result, their education system is one of the best around, and there is very little difference in results between the 'best' schools in the country and the 'worst'. Everyone goes to their local school, nobody is fighting for places, and house prices are not driven up by which schools are nearby. Teachers are no better paid than in the UK but are highly respected. Teaching is seen as a high-status job for good graduates to choose. Why are we getting it so wrong?!

planetarium · 24/03/2016 20:33

The incentive for an LA is it's their job to improve schools any many of them do it very well

I agree that many of them do it very well, but many of them don't, unfortunately, and a solution is needed for that. Like others, I don't think nationwide forced academisation is the right solution, but it is perfectly possible to think that whilst also being supportive of the many excellent academies that are doing their job well.

jellyfrizz · 24/03/2016 20:37

Planetarium but no one is suggesting that successful academies go back to LA control.

planetarium · 24/03/2016 20:41

I think when someone comes and posts on a thread (a few threads in this case) and continually argues against every point made by other posters, as you have done

But I haven't. I've agreed with a lot of the points made. I've disagreed with others. I do like a good debate - if I didn't I wouldn't be bothering to hang around - but you seem to want to reserve the thread for people who agree with you 100%. That's just daft.

Anyway, it's the Easter holidays now, and I've got things to get on with, so I'm not planning to hang around for much longer, interesting though it has been.

FirstVix · 24/03/2016 20:53

Anyone else seen that NM is to attend the NASUWT teacher conference on Saturday? That might be a fun watch! No daft questions about IDS at least!

Mner · 24/03/2016 21:00

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Mner · 24/03/2016 21:06

MNHQ can we not just move to ask both Prof McNally to join for a webchat. I think both a discussion of the evidence and an opportunity to lobby/discuss next steps with a supportive politician would be useful.

As Nicky obviously has no desire to discuss data with us, having a discussion on the evidence is a useful first step (for us) but will not get us any further in trying to open a discussion with someone who can actually influence national policy ...

OP posts:
Mner · 24/03/2016 21:07

Sorry, that should read both Prof McNally and Lucy Powell

OP posts:
mercifulTehlu · 24/03/2016 21:08

But Planetarium - do you think it is terribly likely that those academies have become excellent as a result of becoming academies? I know plenty of people who work in schools which have become academies. I don't think any of them have seen any positive changes as a result.

weirdsister · 24/03/2016 21:15

Planetarium says that 'we do have evidence that competition between schools makes individual schools better.'
Could you link to the evidence as I don't know where to find it. Apologies if it's already on the thread.

BombadierFritz · 24/03/2016 21:18

More snouts in troughs and dodgy finances - double salary to academy head
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35890448

Valentine2 · 24/03/2016 21:20

Not only Nicky Morgan has not returned here, she has not been active on Twitter either. That does not look nice.

MNHQ
It looks like Dr Sandra McNally is going to be someone we can start with.
I am worried a little bit about Lucy Powell though. According to this article of McNally on her website that I have quoted from previously (cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea023.pdf), Labor have also been in the favour of acedmisation though I admit it could be the Blairites mainly who are as close to Tories in my eyes as can be. So I would probably listen in detail from the academics first. I don't know what side Lucy Powell would be but a solid peice of research data is preferable over any of these politicians any day.

weirdsister · 24/03/2016 21:23

'A lot of people have heard bad things about some academies and so assume that all academies are bad'

Perhaps that's your experience. Posters on mumsnet generally don't tend to be so presumptive.
What people are asking for is access to the evidence that academies will improve the education system from Nicky Morgan. It seems that this evidence isn't going to appear.

Valentine2 · 24/03/2016 21:23

And all this evening I have been reading Plantarium's posts and been wondering why are other posters even bothering to engage with her?
That's somebody trying to change the mood around her or something. And obviously wasting everybody's time. Just like Pretty on the original thread.

straggle · 24/03/2016 21:28

my children attend an academy, and I work in schools, but not as a teacher. What's your interest?

I have an interest in the trusts set up Richmond as a parent, which you also seem to know about. A local mumsnetter had similar views and arguments to yours - but seeing as she was involved in proposing the free school which is very much in competition with those trusts, it was relevant that she did declare an interest in those discussions. The problem with the academies system, including even the 'good' MATs, is that it relies on individuals who may have vested interests, but equally could walk away and leave a very big hole in the system. LAs are democratically accountable and sustainable structures, running schools that have a recognised independent legal status (unlike schools in a MAT). Heads are running their own schools but not expected to run several schools at once, which could be the case in the small local MATs picking up the pieces from or alternatives to edubusinesses like LST. Also LAs are not set up by husband and wife teams like some free school trusts (the one in Richmond, which is a chain of mostly religious schools). Proprietor schools might be fine for small businesses in the private sector, because no one is forced to send their children there, but not for the public sector. Cronyism and corruption was a feature in the Kings Science Academy because of the appointment of family members as well as the involvement of a Tory party donor.

curluponthesofa · 24/03/2016 21:32

Planetarium I like a good debate too, and of course I don't want a thread where everyone agrees 100%, but you aren't the one making Government policy are you? The reason this thread came about was that Nicky Morgan had the gall to come and give a summary of her planned huge changes to the education system and then never came back to answer some very valid questions and concerns. From my reading of the thread, what people want is some proper answers, and to know that their concerns are being listened to by those in power. That is what democracy should be about.

I do you think you have interesting points, and it's been useful for me as it's prompted me to look up the governance of the local Academies my children might attend (and I haven't been that reassured by what I've found). But I feel this thread is just going round in circles now. For me it's not an academic debate, it's my children's future.
MNHQ how about a summary of the questions that have been asked and then invite someone on to answer / discuss them? (I do realise this isn't likely to get answered for a few days as you presumably have families you want to spend the Easter weekend with!)
I personally would like something more than the trite statement the DfE sends out every time there is an article on this. I do realise pigs might fly before we get anything from NM though.

PrettyBrightFireflies · 24/03/2016 21:35

I was wondering about a pretty planetarium link as well...

No link, afaik.

I'm keeping my head down, lurking and licking my wounds from the slating I got in the comments on the Guardian article. It's not moderated in the same way as MN and I've not got the same thick skin as NM obviously, as some of the barbs sting. A lot.

Valentine2 · 24/03/2016 21:42

Pretty
So you do realise people are angry and not all of them are stupid either so they might actually have a point that they are angry about?
Thanks for keeping low

Peregrina · 24/03/2016 21:42

Even the Economist - not noted for its left wing stance - is talking about the Starbucksification of schools.

Is that really the best way to run an education service?

PrettyBrightFireflies · 24/03/2016 21:47

valentine have you read the Guardian comments?
Im not referring to the people who expressed their anger at the proposal.

Valentine2 · 24/03/2016 21:58

Pretty
No I have not read them but I have to read now.
I am sorry you had to face that kind of harsh response there as I know how nasty Guardian comments can be.

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