Cologne Sexual Assaults IX and David Davies Web Chat

[LumelaMme]

On New Year's Eve women in Cologne were amongst those who were sexually assaulted and robbed in mass attacks.
This is a link to the last thread which has links to all the others.

Some of us have begun a petition asking the government to uphold women's rights and freedoms:

THE PETITION _ Please sign and share
The petition

We also hope that tomorrow, Monday 8th February, David TC Davies MP will be on MN for a web chat between 1pm and 2pm - it should be a sticky on either Chat or In The News. David was one of the few MPs who has shown any interest in this whole issue and who has responded sympathetically to those of us concerned about women's rights in a changing world.

[AMouseLivedinaWindMill]

h I sympathise with vlad (who is relatively new to these threads), as we have all experienced genuine frustration, (and I think you have too) to provocation, via 'racist' name calling etc. Can be very hard not to bite and give it back

same here, why such provakation has been allowed to go on...

[MrWriter]

Hi everyone,

Just getting a chance to catch up from last week, so many developments and not many are good. Though glad to see DD over on the other thread.

I just wanted to throw my few pence in, in relation to PTSD. My father suffered very badly as a result of being in the forces and seeing some horrible things. At no point did he decide that rape was the answer to issues, and actually if the PTSD did anything it made him very over protective of women and children.

Using PTSD as an excuse is disgusting and minimises the issue.

[Mistigri]

I'm sure I've read that Marine Le Pen is against scrapping Le Touquet because she thinks it would act as a pull factor for more migrants to cross France if it's suddenly easier to get to the UK.

There are varying schools of thought. A lot of FN politicians in the north of France would scrap the agreement tomorrow, as would some of Sarkozy's party. The PS (government) line is that scrapping the Le Touquet accord would increase migrant flows through France, and while the Dublin agreement still applies this would result in increased number of refugees being returned from the UK to France, and an overall net increase in asylum seekers in France.

However if the UK leaves the EU, the Dublin regulations will no longer apply (this seems pretty definitive btw) - in which case it would no longer be simple for the UK to return asylum seekers to France. In this case the French may well see a benefit in scrapping the Le Touquet agreement and returning the border to Dover.

It seems clear to me that both country's interests are served by having sensible border agreements, but equally in a tit for tat post-Brexit situation - with a government in France that may need to make substantial concessions to the FN - there is a very significant risk that political benefits may be put ahead of the national interest.

I don't agree with scaremongering but anyone claiming that Brexit reduces immigration from failed Middle East states needs to actually spell out their reasoning. Wishful thinking isn't enough.

[2016IsANewYearforMe]

They are already discussing overturning the Dublin agreement within the EU.

[MariscallRoad]

435 so far

[MariscallRoad]

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-06/merkel-says-eu-must-take-in-refugees-directly-from-turkey

[BrittEkland]

Palebluedotty .... The Le Touquet agreement of juxtaposted border controls between Belgium, France and the UK is not an EU-based deal.

Iain Dale's first comment as he opened his LBC programme at 4pm today was as above. He said Cameron should be ashamed of himself for trying this on with the public but also how easy it is, because few people know the ins & outs of the above agreement.

[BrittEkland]

I've just been emailed a vid of Farage speaking in the European Parliament. Merkel and Hollande are present. His speech was not reported in the French or German media. Does anyone want to see it?

[Moreshabbythanchic]

Yes please Britt

[Mistigri]

Britt the Le Touquer agreement may not be an EU one, but there has been explicit discussion in French government circles of rescinding the deal within 2 years of a Brexit vote. I think it is 90% certain that it would not survive a leave vote.

Spin it how you like, but Cameron - who is better informed about French politics than you are - has a point here.

[BrittEkland]

Everyone, I have just realised something. I thought we were speaking with the Tory backbencher David Davis today, a much older man. But we got David Davies, MP for Monmouth.

www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-mp-responds-to-the-prime-ministers-warning-that-brexit-will-bring-the-jungle-camp-in-calais-to-southern-england-2/

[BrittEkland]

The Farage vid

[BrittEkland]

Mistigri ...."Spin it how you like, but Cameron - who is better informed about French politics than you are - has a point here."

Why the hostility? I was reporting on a radio show. What's the matter with you?

[rumbleinthrjungle]

I'm not sure why David Cameron seems to feel that Customs in Folkstone, Dover and everywhere else will just helplessly stand there and watch illegal migrants stroll past them and set up camp. They don't do that now, why would they suddenly start if we left the EU? I think plane companies are charged for bringing an illegal immigrant into the UK and expected to return them to the airport at which they embarked at their own cost, aren't they? Ferries and the Eurostar can have the same fine if they let someone on board without the right paperwork, with the requirement to return them immediately to Calais. Their security will shoot up overnight.

The coastguard are equipped to watch the coasts, intercept and tow boats headed for beaches rather than ports back to France. Beaches can be easily be watched and we have cctv, it's not like someone has to sit there with binoculars in a deckchair any more. Customs have been doing this kind of work for decades, this is just an increase in numbers, not something they've never done before. The police can also go to every tent or shelter as its set up (like they already do for any tent or shelter being set up anywhere outside a designated campsite) and escort the inhabitants straight back on a boat to Calais. And as David Davies said in the chat this afternoon, effective, immediate deportations would have an impact on reducing the numbers of people trying this because they will see it doesn't work. It is perfectly possible to control the borders.

Customs and the Coast Guard will need an increase in staff, equipment and funding, but then if we'd left the EU we're going to have billions of money saved in membership fees to do this kind of thing.

[Moreshabbythanchic]

I have to agree with a lot of what NF said in that vid, Merkel looked totally disinterested.

[vladimirsoftless]

haha Merkel looks mightily irritated.

[MariscallRoad]

www.dw.com/en/slim-asylum-chances-for-40-percent-of-refugees-in-germany-report/a-19032005

[WidowWadman]

BrittEkland I won't apologise to you and it was perfectly possible to be ordinarily resident from the day of arrival and access the NHS 11years ago, despite the Mail's claim that is not a new change. The question if you're ordinarily resident has nothing to do with how long you've already been in the country but with why you're here and the intention to stay.

Here's a guide from HMRC, whilst this doesn't specifically mention the NHS, it applies all the same.

I can assure you I've not imagined registering with a GP for the first time shortly after my arrival in 2005, or having an appendectomy a few (and less than 6 months) later. In fact moving to the UK meant that I had to cancel my state health insurance in Germany as the rules forbid having both, and I was covered by the NHS due to my residency.

So are you accusing me of lying on the back of a Daily Mail article? You've already proven your gullibility when you posted that nonsense about Japan without even checking on snopes first.

Happy to accept your apology anytime, but really am not bothered either way.

[vladimirsoftless]

widow when I had to register with a GP about 16 years ago, I had to prove my residency. I am pretty sure it involved living here a minimum of 6 months.

[Mistigri]

Widow haven't read the prior exchange but you're correct that there have been reciprocal agreements (regarding access to healthcare for EU citizens ordinarily resident in another EU state) in place for at least 18 years, at least for those who had previously paid social insurance/ national insurance contributions in an EU country. We took advantage of this in 1998.

rumble border guards may not just stand there, but a person who arrives at a port or railway station and claims asylum can't just be turned away. You can't tow or otherwise return asylum seekers to France without a legal framework for doing so (the Dublin regulation) and this will cease to exist in a post Brexit world, unless a new agreement is negotiated with the EU.

There are unlikely to be camps on Folkestone beach, as asylum seekers will presumably be transferred either to other cities, or to immigration detention facilities. But there will be a significant cost to this, and probably an overall net increase in refugee flows, if the French call the UK's bluff.

[BrittEkland]

Widow ...... I am not gullible enough to believe anything you tell me. One of my Polish visitors in 2009 was not allowed to register with an NHS GP.

[vladimirsoftless]

the whole asylum system needs to be overhauled. the world has changed, people in pretty much any country have a much lower quality of life and experience conflict and economic hardship. We can't take them all. the system was designed for political refugees. the worlds political landscape has changed since then and we need to be more efficient with the asylum process and have different asylum policies. the existing system is not fit for purpose. clearly.

[vladimirsoftless]

*much lower quality of life than people in developed countries.

[WidowWadman]

Was your polish visitor a visitor/tourist or ordinarily resident? I don't doubt that a badly trained receptionist may have refused, however, as you can see in the documents below there is no time limit as a factor on the decision who is a resident, it is all about why someone is here and if they intend to stay.


webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-overseas-visitors-hospital-charging-regulations

[AMouseLivedinaWindMill]

absolutely have read that many times Vlad - term needs updating.