Boy stabbed at school has died

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Oh my God! this is awful. A boy was stabbed today at a school just outside Aberdeen. Reports say he was only 15. Now twitter is saying he has died.

Cults academy.

This lad needs a fair trial first, but then we need to see if there were warning signs, such as bullying or truancy, that should have been addressed earlier to prevent this horrible crime.
Maybe there are lessons to be learned about addressing lower level violence as soon as it occurs.

I have no idea how anyone could think that adding guns to the situation would have done anything other than ramp up the death toll.
The US has far higher murder rates than any other industrialised country.
Even many cases of toddlers shooting their siblings or parents.

Just because gun legislation can't prevent every single murder is no reason to open the floodgates to thousands more casualties.

Don'thaveausername your logic is totally flawed because knives aren't banned.

You would have a case if your were criticising the inherent risk in having a law that allows knives to be carried legally as long as they aren't to be used as weapons. And that criticism wouldn't be relevant to guns being carried, because a gun's only use is as a weapon. No-one carries a gun to help remove string from a parcel or open a cardboard box.

So this situation is effectively one where someone has been killed with an item that isn't banned. Which is exactly the same situation that some countries are in with guns. So if anything, it stands as an effective counterexample to your argument.

And by the way, it is absolutely horrible to jump onto such a horrible tragedy to find grist for your hobby horse. Especially with such indecent haste.

Gun control doesn't just displace death it reduces it

Murder rate (deaths per 100,000 population):

Japan 0.3 (very low gun availability)
USA 4.7 (relatively high gun availability)

Robot, the poster has been given all the correct stats and info on another thread and they choose to ignore it and continue to spout their own flawed views, I agree with PPs, the poster should start their own thread and I am many people would be glad to debate on that. Not me because I have been there and done that and it's a waste of time as the poster doesn't accept that their stats and reasoning are wrong.

I realised that just after I posted myother. Their nonsense was just so hideous I responded before I got to the bottom of the the thread. I chose to read the thread as Aberdeen is my hometown and I know people in Cults and I was just pretty disgusted they were hijacking it to ride as a hobbyhorse.

I know Robot - that wasn't meant to be snipey to you, I appreciated what you were trying to do :)

I live in the vicinity of Dunblane.

I should add though that donthaves views were relevant on the initial thread which was about one of recent school shootings in the States. I know that sometimes threads do derail a bit and end up in a different way to that which was originally intended, however it was inappropriate to air those particular views on this particular thread which is about one specific named individual child who has tragically been killed in a country where the vast majority of the members of this site live.

The local paper in Aberdeen, the Press and Journal carried an interview with one of Bailey's friends a couple of days ago. The boy said he was with Bailey until a few minutes before he was stabbed.

What came through in the interview was that the boy seemed to feel that his friend's memory and, possibly his reputation, was being damaged by the press. So, he wanted to put the record straight, so to speak as his friend, Bailey wasn't here to defend himself any more. I think that's really sad that he is made to feel that way, given that the friend is little more than a child too and already has to deal with a sudden and brutal death.

He also said that Bailey only joined Cults Academy a year ago when the local private Waldorf Steiner school closed down in Summer '14. I hope its not derailing but what is a Waldorf Steiner school?

PS On a site that's based in the UK and on a thread about a child being killed at school, it is disgusting to write about how deluded Americans try to justify carrying guns. It shows a vacuum of decency and common sense.

It'll be Rudolph Steiner:

www.steinerwaldorf.org/steiner-education/what-is-steiner-education/

Quite controversial education system. I know an adult that came through it and struggled in real life as he had very little formal education - he's in his 50s though so maybe a bit different nowadays.

I'd imagine moving from a Steiner school to a very academic school might be quite a difficult transition.

I see that Waldorf is also used in the schools title - i thought that that was just misheard.

www.steinerwaldorf.org/steiner-education/what-is-steiner-education/

That's what they say about themselves. Others say other things, and yes, it can all get a bit controversial.

Possibly a difficult academic transition, but what about a social one?

who can say var? that would very much depend on the personalities of all involved.

There are so many rumours about it all in Aberdeen. Its a small enough city that almost everyone knows someone with a connection to it. Who can say what the truth is and what's just hearsay.

I only hope that something positive comes out of this. Even if it just brings a realisation that penknives aren't toys or something to be brandished about to intimidate others.

I don't envy the headteachers tomorrow at their assemblies.

Nope - it's terribly sad and I guess the final truth is that regardless of rumour etc one boy has lost his life and another has done something awful, that he will have to live with the consequences of, for the rest of his life. And two families are facing a very different future than they were a few days ago.

I have 15 and 14 year old DSs, they are my world and I really cant imagine the hurt being felt by all those personally affected by this.

just to add that my daughter went to a very good school where admission was controlled by interview and it was sponsored by RR and various other companies. She was chatting to peers about knives one day and discovered that almost everyone except her in her circle of 12 friends carried a penknife or flick knife 'for protection' She was 16 at the time. All these friends have mostly gone on to uni and have careers now so not a 'down and out' crowd. I was shocked as a parent to know this but do any parents of 16 yr olds know if they carry knives - would you ask your child?

I'm not surprised they would be carrying for protection especially when things like this happen. The self preservation instinct kicks in and you want to make yourself safer. Also what about people who have penknifes in general, like not to stab someone just as a tool for every day life?

Sorry didn't see the bit about flick knives, that's an easy arrest right there as there's no legal justification to have them but if it's a Swiss army type knife all those kids would need to say is that it's definitely NOT for protection if questioned by the police, and nothing could really be done, as you are allowed to carry such a knife without a reason. One way of dealing with that in school grounds would maybe be byelaws relating to not being allowed a penknife in school grounds. I think airports have a similar exemption but not sure.

Why would a school have legal difficulty banning children from carrying swiss army knives into school? Some schools ban things like the wrong shade of grey on the socks, or nail varnish on the nails, so surely it would not be difficult to ban bringing in swiss army knives?

Of course, there is a massive difference between making a rule to ban them and actually preventing them being brought in.

"Why would a school have legal difficulty banning children from carrying swiss army knives into school? Some schools ban things like the wrong shade of grey on the socks, or nail varnish on the nails, so surely it would not be difficult to ban bringing in swiss army knives?"

I was talking about legally. As you point out, schools can and do ban things as simple as the wrong colour of socks, so there wouldn't be any problem in adding a rule that penknives aren't allowed, but that would just be school policy and not the law. The police would be unable to do anything with a youngster who has a penknife as long as he or she isn't stupid enough to admit it's for protection. So you'd need to make the rule about no knives a zero tolerance thing, anyone having any knife for any reason on school grounds is excluded no exceptions. But then that will cause arts and craft/woodwork type classes to essentially stop, because they won't be able to use them in those classes, and students will need to make do with just a fork and spoon in the canteen from then on.

or plastic cutlery like they do on aeroplanes?

You could get round the curricular considerations by insisting that only school supplied knives and tools are used for art, DT and cooking lessons and then only in the artroom/ DT suite / home economics wing etc.

As a rule, I doubt it would be difficult to write, and its probably worth doing.

However, the real challenge lies in enforcing the rule, and I can't imagine how that would work. I, for one, wouldn't want teachers operating a stop and search policy on the students, for the sake of both students and teachers.

What would have stopped the boy at Cults academy bringing a knife into school last week and thinking even for a millisecond that he should get it out and threaten someone with it, never mind knifing someone with it?

Yes the difficulty is never in making a rule, the difficulty it. For example it was against society's rules for this boy to stab someone, and that wasn't enforced

That may be at the heart of the issue though. What societal rules did the boy who did the stabbing recognise? Does he come from a family that encourages being on the wrong side of the law and where fear = respect??