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Pat Buchanan - Can the Establishment stop Trump or is it all over?

89 replies

claig · 20/10/2015 18:22

Pat Buchanan, one of the few real non-moderniser conservatives left on the planet, says it looks near to impossible for the Establishment to stop Trump now.

Carly Fiorina has collapsed to 4%, the Establishmentg media hype failed to help her, and Marco Rubio is now the Establishment's last chance to save themselves.

"The lights are burning late tonight in the suites of the establishment. For not since Sen. Barry Goldwater won the California primary in 1964 have their prospects appeared so grim.

Can Trump be stopped?"

www.wnd.com/2015/10/can-trump-be-stopped/

As Pat says, the mood of the people has changed. They are anti the political correctness agenda of the elites and the modernisers,

"In a year when a huge slice of the nation is disgusted with political correctness, wants to dethrone the establishment, wipe the slate clean and begin anew with someone fresh, Trump is in the pole position."

What happens in America could sweep here too. It looks like we may be witnessing the end of political correctness and the modernisers.

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claig · 20/10/2015 23:59

SenecaFalls, how will they stop Trump becoming the nominee?

Pat Buchanan, a Republican former Presidential candidate, says that it looks very unlikely the establishment can stop Trump winning now.

"Between now and March, they must settle on a candidate, hope his rivals get out of the race, defeat Trump in one of the first two contests, or effect his defeat by someone like Carson, then pray Trump will collapse like a house of cards.

The improbabilities of accomplishing this grow by the week and will soon start looking, increasingly, like an impossibility – absent the kind of celestial intervention that marked the career of the late Calvin Coolidge."

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SenecaFalls · 21/10/2015 00:04

SenecaFalls, how will they stop Trump becoming the nominee?

Who is "they"? To win the nomination people have to vote for you in the primaries. Not enough will vote for Trump.

claig · 21/10/2015 00:06

'Who is "they"?'

The establishment, as Pat Buchanan mentions in his article "Can Trump be stopped?"

"Between now and March, they must settle on a candidate"

The Republican elite, the establishment and all its financial backers.

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claig · 21/10/2015 00:09

'To win the nomination people have to vote for you in the primaries'

Are they open primaries where anyone can vote including Democrats or are only Republicans eligible to vote in the primaries?

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nooka · 21/10/2015 00:21

Depends on the rules in each state. Most are registered republicans/democrats only but a fair proportion are open.

claig · 21/10/2015 00:30

Interesting, I am not sure what will happen in the open ones, but my guess is that real conservatives will vote for Trump above the establishment nonentities in the Republican only ones.

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claig · 21/10/2015 00:33

Canada has just swung left in its election, but they had no Trump in the race there. Trump is such a big anti-politics figure that he puts the professional nonentities in the shade.

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claig · 21/10/2015 00:34

Canada has just swung left in its election, but they had no Trump in the race there. Trump is such a big anti-politics figure that he puts the professional nonentities in the shade.

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LittleFeileFooFoo · 21/10/2015 00:36

Claig, I think you are forgetting that if trump does win the primary, he won't win the General election because he had alienated a huge number of voters who are already liberal leaning.

I know a fair number of registered republicans who will vote democrat before voting for trump. Again, these folks are pretty centrist, but I'm sure you're not getting that data when you get info from Fox and daily mail.

We can agree to disagree, but I actually live here and talk to real people, polls this far out are extremely tenuous.

claig · 21/10/2015 00:48

'he won't win the General election because he had alienated a huge number of voters who are already liberal leaning. '

Yes, but how many of those are there? Trump will bring jobs back to America which will go down well with blue collar workers. They know that Trump will negotiate tough trade deals that suit America and American workers above the 1%. Also Trump is right that Mitt Romney blew the election last time and before that MNcCain was an absolute joke if not a fixed candidate intended to lose. Provided Trump is alos not fixed, he can do it. He is straight talking anti war and pro business and jobs.

'Again, these folks are pretty centrist, but I'm sure you're not getting that data when you get info from Fox and daily mail. '

I watch Fox, but they are anti Trump just like all the rest. The Daily Mail doesn't really say much about Trump. I must admit, I am basing my opinions on what I think about Trump and conservative politics and establishment puppets rather than really knowing how American Republicans think, but it seems the majority in polls currently think like me about Trump.

'We can agree to disagree, but I actually live here and talk to real people, polls this far out are extremely tenuous.'

Yes you are beter placed and all the experts are saying that Trump won't make it and Mitt Romney said the same, but the experts have been wrong at least up to now. I'm hoping Trump makes it and changes the entire world, but he may let us down.

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claig · 21/10/2015 00:53

If Trump wins, Europe will change dramatically. Real conservatives will make a comeback in Europe, all the modernisers will be swept out of power ina tsunami. A Trump victory will topple establishments all over the world.

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claig · 21/10/2015 01:01

I watched Chris Wallace interview Trump on Fox. Wallace was scared of Trump, not knowing how he would attack him next. Trump is not like the puppets, he is above that, he gives hope.

"BOOM! Chris Wallace on Trump: “I’m Beginning to Believe He Can Be President of the United States”
...

“All of us dismissed Trump early on. A summer fling, momentary amusement. As I watch that interview and I heard what he had to say about the country and about trade and about losing and just the sheer force of his personality, I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States.”

www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/boom-chris-wallace-on-trump-im-beginning-to-believe-he-can-be-president-of-the-united-states-video/

Wallace looked scared of Trump, imagine what the establishment feel and what they stand to lose if Trump makes it. They don't own Trump.

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claig · 21/10/2015 01:06

This is a comment from a reader of that article. She is a real conservative, part of the "silent majority". We're back, the people are back, and the establishment is reeling and Trump will change Europe as well as America.

"TO be onest; we the people who supported TRUMP from the start made these dishonest media caved in. Chris Wallace has no choice to accept Trump because of pressure from the people's power !!
We should stick together all the way 2016 and bring back the greatness of America again!! Trump is the only hope...."

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SenecaFalls · 21/10/2015 01:15

In the general election, it is increasingly difficult to win without the Hispanic vote. Trump will not get that vote.

claig · 21/10/2015 01:23

Yes, Trump messed up with what he said about Mexicans, but you can never tell with Trump, maybe he can still turn that around. Someone was interviewed on CNN or Fox and said they were at a meeting with Trump and nearly all the Mexican business community was with Trump.

Trump has a gift with communication, it is not impossible that he may be able to recover what he said about Mexicans.

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LittleFeileFooFoo · 21/10/2015 01:58

Lol, sorry "trump has a gift with communication" made me laugh.

nooka · 21/10/2015 02:30

Depends on the rules in each state. Most are registered republicans/democrats only but a fair proportion are open.

nooka · 21/10/2015 03:51

Sorry about the weird double post there.

Craig, why do you imagine that a change in US politics would have a radical effect on the rest of the world? Why would America voting in a rather unpleasant 'straight talker' mean that everyone else would rush to do the same? American politics and European politics are very different.

The power of the President in the States is actually very limited, and the most effective presidents have been the ones that have been able to build consensus. Without the cooperation of the House and the Senate there's very little that can actually be achieved. It's one of the reasons that Obama has been fairly ineffective, as he's not been able to work with the Tea Party Republicans. Trump similarly would be unable to work with the Democrats (and likely with many Republicans either).

Plus of course his ideas are generally totally unworkable, lots of rhetoric and no substance.

claig · 21/10/2015 08:23

'why do you imagine that a change in US politics would have a radical effect on the rest of the world?'

Because most of the politicians across the planet are total puppets controlled by elites and America runs the world and dictates to Europe. Occasionally, Germany tries to rebel a bit and do business with Russia over an oil pipeline etc and then gets immediately put right by America like over Ukraine. All of Europe does as it is told. But a Trump victory signals a huge change in America, a curtailing of power of the current Establishment elite which is why they fear Trump.

Trump is different to all of the puppets who are controlled by the elite, which is why the entire Establishment is against him and want him to lose.

'The power of the President in the States is actually very limited,'

I think things will change when Trump wins. If he is not a a fixed, false candidate then he is not going through all this, taking all the abuse from the media and its pundits for nothing, he is going to change America and as he says "make America great again", but in the process he will also make the world great again because he will restore common sense conservatism across the whole planet and puppets across the globe will dance to his tune as local elites lose influence as America flexes its power in a good way without pointless wars. I think Trump will end up solving problems across the world by "getting on well with Putin" (as he says he will probably do), and by creating business and what he calls "fair trade, not free trade" for all the countries across the world as he rebuilds America.

If Trump gets in, it will be the end of political correctness, not just in America, but all over the world, and it will be the end of the climate change game all over the world, which is why the elite are desperate to stop him.

'Trump similarly would be unable to work with the Democrats (and likely with many Republicans either).'

Remember "Art of the Deal", Trump is a force of nature, he is not in this for a laugh, he will get things done and puppets will be unpopular if they try to thwart his plans for America.

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squidzin · 21/10/2015 08:53

This is all very entertaining, but Claig because I care about your puppy-like enthusiasm, please don't be too disappointed when he does not become America's next president.. He really won't.

squidzin · 21/10/2015 08:55

He won't "be stopped" by the establishment either. The establishment rather like him, because he's entertainment value, gets everyone talking about the polls, and is no real threat to any of the other candidates.

claig · 21/10/2015 09:00

Some articles on the phenomenon that is Trump and why the elite fear him. There is a leader by the Economist, which is the voice piece of the financial elite, that shows how scared they are of him.

From the American Spectator:

"How Trump Has Changed the Game
He’s got the football, and no one knows how to tackle him.

Watching Republican establishment types trying to stop Donald Trump’s presidential campaign is like watching a highlight film of Fran Tarkenton’s NFL career. Tarkenton’s legendary ability as a scrambling quarterback was every football coach’s worst nightmare.
...
Can Trump win? To this question, the Republican establishment emphatically answers, “No.” Even if Trump were to survive the primary campaign and capture the GOP nomination, all the clever consultants and shrewd strategists assure us, he would certainly lose on Election Day 2016.
...
If Trump is still on top after March 1, how could the anti-Trump forces hope to stop him at that point?
...
He has made the standard Republican campaign model as irrelevant as whatever play Fran Tarkenton called in the huddle. Donald Trump has changed the play, he’s scrambling and looking downfield and, despite the predictions of naysayers, he just might be able to take the Republican Party all the way."

spectator.org/articles/64056/how-trump-has-changed-game

Go Trump! All the way! Republican voters are back, the people are back, enthusiasm is back, America is going to be great again and the elites are in panic as they are powerless to stop Trump.

And here is a leader from the Economist. mouthpiece of the elite, terrified atthe prospect of a Trump victory.

"Trump’s America

Why the Donald is dangerous
...
Americans are waking up to the possibility that a man whose hobby is naming things after himself might—conceivably—be the nominee of the party of Lincoln and Reagan. It is worth spelling out why that would be a terrible thing.

Mr Trump is not in thrall to the hobgoblins of consistency.
...
Towering populism

Mr Trump’s secret sauce has two spices. First, he has a genius for self-promotion, unmoored from reality (“I play to people’s fantasies. I call it truthful hyperbole,” he once said). Second, he says things that no politician would, so people think he is not a politician. Sticklers for politeness might object when he calls someone a “fat pig” or suggests that a challenging female interviewer has “blood coming out of her wherever”. His supporters, however, think his boorishness is a sign of authenticity—of a leader who can channel the rage of those who feel betrayed by the elite or left behind by social change. It turns out that there are tens of millions of such people in America.

The country has flirted with populists in the past, but none has won a major-party presidential nomination since William Jennings Bryan in 1908. The closest any true firebrand has come was in 1996, when Pat Buchanan, whose slogan was “The peasants are coming with pitchforks”, won the Republican primary in New Hampshire against a dull establishment candidate, Bob Dole. (Mr Dole later won the nomination.)

Mr Trump is far more dangerous than Pitchfork Pat, for two reasons. First, as a billionaire, he will not run out of money to finance his campaign. Second, he faces so many Republican opponents that he could grab the nomination with only a modest plurality of the vote. The smart money still says that Republicans will eventually unite behind a mainstream candidate, as they always have in the past. But the world cannot take this for granted. Demagogues in other countries sometimes win elections, and there is no compelling reason why America should always be immune. Republicans should listen carefully to Mr Trump, and vote for someone else"

www.economist.com/news/leaders/21663225-why-donald-dangerous-trumps-america

That is the Economist, the panic among elites is palpable.

They fear Trump's inconsistency, his unpredictability, the factthat he is a populist and not a puppet politician. He doesn't have to spell out plans, he changes his minds, what he says is not what he will do and they are terrified of that. They know he will scrap the climate change game and make America great again and they are praying that he will lose and that there will be no more "Pitchfork Pat Buchanan" taking the people, the peasants, all the way to Washington.

Real conservatives loved Pat Buchanan and we loved his slogan "Go Pat Go" Grin and we love Trump, "Go Trump" 2016, "make America great again" and put panic into the hearts of the Economist and the financial elites.

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claig · 21/10/2015 09:11

This is the fear of the Economist and the elites worldwide

"a leader who can channel the rage of those who feel betrayed by the elite or left behind by social change. It turns out that there are tens of millions of such people in America."

There are tens of millions in America and hundreds of millions across the world. We're back, the people are back and we are carrying Trump on our shoulders. We're going all the way, all the way to Washington DC and no puppets can stop us.

"Go Pat Go"
"Go Trump 2016"

As the Republican voter said in teh artcile quoted further up the thread, they can't stop Trump because "we the people" are carrying him aloft to victory.

"To be honest; we the people who supported TRUMP from the start made these dishonest media caved in. Chris Wallace has no choice to accept Trump because of pressure from the people's power !!
We should stick together all the way 2016 and bring back the greatness of America again!! Trump is the only hope...."

We're back and the elite know it. "Go Trump!! All the way!

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claig · 21/10/2015 09:31

People across the entire planet love the American Dream, we all want a part of it and Trump represents the American dream in spades.

It started with Pat Buchanan and "Go Pat Go" which is like the American anthem "Johnny B Goode" and Trump will take us all the way to Washington and put our name in lights.

" Deep down in Louisiana close to New Orleans,
Way back up in the woods among the evergreens
There stood a log cabin made of earth and wood,
Where lived a country boy named Donal Trump
Who never ever learned to read or write so well,
But he could play a guitar just like a ringing a bell.

[Chorus:]
Go Go
Go Pat go
Go, Go GoPat go
Donald Trump

His mother told him, "Someday you will be a man,
And you will be the leader of a big old band.
Many people coming from miles around
To hear you play your music when the sun go down.
Maybe someday your name will be in lights
Saying 'JDonal Trump' tonight'."

We're back and this time the puppets can't stop us.

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Isitmebut · 21/10/2015 10:37

claig …. Re your Trumpeting; We're back and this time the puppets can't stop us.

If Trump gets in, it will be the end of political correctness, not just in America, but all over the world,

Trump is different to all of the puppets who are controlled by the elite, which is why the entire Establishment is against him and want him to lose.

You do realise on THIS board you are meant to be from the UK, supporting ‘the people’ via UKIP/Farage and Labour/Corbyn but feel its totally OK for President Assad to murder up to 80% of his people?

Now WHY would someone supposedly in the UK want to try a similar media frenzy that got votes for far right Farage and far left Corbyn, on a rather nasty shite in the U.S. Republican candidacy race …. Hmmm let me think

Is Donald Trump a Man to Mend US Relations With Russia
sputniknews.com/politics/20150824/1026144021.html

”According to Donald Trump, the United States has recently ruined its relations not only with Russia but with countries throughout the world; "Nobody likes us… we are like a big bully," Trump said.”

Trump backs Russia, Iran efforts to fight Islamic State
www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/29/us-usa-election-trump-mideast-idUSKCN0RT1GB20150929

Asked whether he backed those like Russia who supported Syrian President Bashar al Assad or those who see him as the source of Syria's current crisis, Trump told NBC's "Today" program: "I side with the group that says 'if Russia wants to go and fight ISIS, you should let them', as opposed to saying 'we're jealous, we don't want you to do that'."

Trump, who is leading public opinion polls among those seeking the Republican Party's bid to win the White House in the 2016 election, said the United States should support those who want to destroy the militant group that has taken over swaths of Syria as well as neighboring Iraq.

The Donald Trump doctrine:'Assad is bad' but US must stop 'nation-building'

• Exclusive: Republican frontrunner lays out foreign policy
Condemns Iraq ‘disaster’ with exceptions for atrocities – ‘Isis is one of them’
Suggests sympathy for Putin’s Syrian intervention in wide-ranging interview
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/donald-trump-foreign-policy-doctrine-nation-building

Putin hates Obama who confronts him, and no matter what media frenzies the Troll House whips up, the American's will NEVER elect a soft on Russia 'pinko' President - and whether a Republican of Democrat opponent, all this ignorance on foreign affairs, will come back and bite Trump on the arse.