Why would anyone consider going to Rugby school better than the mixed local comp?

[Charis2]

I read this article in the standard earleir, and just thought what is this headmaster on? Why is this scholarship presented as such a huge honour for the boy, when in fact it is a way of the school paying to improve its results by taking in some of the best sixth form students without fees.

What "lifechanging" opportunities does he expect he can offer, which Hassenbrook acadamy can't?

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/needs-pic-teenage-footballer-wins-70000-scholarship-to-boarding-school-that-invented-rugby-a2953791.html

Headmaster Peter Green said he hoped Michael and other Arnold Foundation scholars would have a “ripple effect” on their communities when they return home.

He said: “We might be able to be transformative and transform their lives. Then when they go to university, and after, they can start to transform their own local communities. It’s not about parachuting someone out of that. We want to keep their association with where they are from.”

What a snob. Does he think the staff at Hassenbrook only teach poor peoples maths and physics, and the maths at Rugby is somehow a better class of maths? perhaps he thinks the laws of physics perform better there too?

I hope this lad has fun, but I don't think for a moment his life is going to be in any way better because he spent two years mixing with rich snobs rather than normal people.

charis I think it's you who needs to step outside your bubble and see what's actually on offer to the vast majority in the country. You are doing the equivalent of me telling posters who live in rough highly built up areas their kids can go out unaccompanied and play in fields/ take up country pursuits/ cycle to the village centre/ go to the park with a picnic/ take themselves to extra curricular things etc because mine has those opportunities.

Absolutely - chairs you think you are sounding right on, but it is a weirdly reactionary argument you are making. My kids are fine because I take them sailing. Great! What about all those who can't? It's a rare state school that offers any kind of rowing or sailing. You really think your average inner city kid is as likely to be a champion rower as the Etonian with an Olympic lake to practise on? And yes, of course you are eminently more likely to end up a professional actor if you have aa professional theatre in your school, and several famous actors among alumni, than if you don't!

Op you asked what was on offer a public school that you could get at a comp, then whenit is explained what is on offer your retort is to say well you can get or do those things in family time or outside of school.

Well of course anyone can swim, play squash, play Polo etc outside of school but your question waswhat can you get that is different at a public school from a comp.

I don't know any comps with squash courts, Polo facilities and rarely pools.

charis I think it's you who needs to step outside your bubble

I don't live in a bubble, and I have decades of experience in schools, independent and state, and in fact have been in both this week. The state school was certainly offering more.

Another false impression independent schools give, their staff are "better"!? In fact many of the same staff tend to move between jobs in both sectors, their staff are the same.

I think your lack of understanding of stats is shocking I have an excellent grasp of stats, thank you, and in fact teach it. I don't fall for lazy media misinterpretations, certainly. Which a lot of the independent school hype is. They certainly spend billions on marketing!

Op you asked what was on offer a public school that you could get at a comp, then whenit is explained what is on offer your retort is to say well you can get or do those things in family time or outside of school.

No, I'm saying all these things are available inside school, and outside with your family ( but not if you are boarding)

I don't know any comps with squash courts, Polo facilities and rarely pools.

water polo is available to local comps on our local lake, and also for families, again it is cheaper than football.

All Uk school children have access to a pool.

I don't think anyone is saying independent teachers are better in terms of teaching skill than all state teachers. But the exact same teacher doing say a biology lesson at somewhere like rugby isn't going to come up against the same problems as they will at an under funded state school. Not to mention that independent schools have the money to employ specialist teachers, where state schools don't always do. Plus an independent can't afford to keep on inadequate teachers, a comprehensive may have no choice in the matter.

Even ignoring academics, the fact is it's a hell of a lot more than 7% of Olympic competitors that went to private schools. I've got no idea of the stats but I'll also take a wild stab in the dark and guess that it's not just 7% of under 18 county level kids that come from the private sector. Parental income isn't that relevant, because from the 93% who don't use private there are still more than enough supportive and involved families who can afford the sports training. So again it's the schools that must also be a large part of it.

Again charis you fail to realise you aren't everybody.

Well, one very obvious advantage is boarding - not offered at an average state school, but available at Rugby and other public schools.

If you don't think that's an advantage, that's your own personal opinion. It's an opinion that is not shared by many schools, boarders and parents, though.

Water polo in a lake? My school offered it in a heated (Olympic sized) pool, so there is a bonus for starters.

It is also a bit weird that you lump all private schools in to one group but want to highlight the good comps. Clearly Rugby is one of the A-list schools that can't be compared to somewhere with 40 in a class, just like a sink estate comp can't be compared to a top performing comp...

I spent half my education in the state system and half in the private system on a nearly-full scholarship, and I noticed really quite a lot of significant differences.
Your premise of 'all of this is available to comp students outside the school day' makes the very huge assumption that someone is there to facilitate/ferry/watch these. The private school day is 8:15 until 5pm, and is also 6 days a week. That leaves a LOT of time outside lessons for extra curricular activities without needing someone to drive you there, or juggle your preferences with those of your siblings.

How did this translate to me? My brothers and I were all able to get to county level of different sports. All bar one of those were coached as part of the usual school sports offering so didn't cost anything, and we got to compete twice a week as part of the normal school week (show me a comprehensive that would let pupils take every single wednesday afternoon off school to compete at top level…). If these coaching sessions weren't part of the usual school day, there isn't a hope that we would all have been able to be dropped off at various sports clubs in a 20 mile radius. There is no way we would have been able to buy all the kit rather than borrow it from the school equipment shed. And there is frankly no way we would have access to Olympic-standard coaches and facilities. Yes I would have learned to swim. No I wouldn't have competed at the level I did.

Class sizes were also a huge thing. GCSE classes were taught in a maximum class size of 15. My state sixth form had 20+ per class. It doesn't need spelling out what this means…

And as others have said, the private school social life prepares you for a different sort of adult life. Black tie events from an early age, visiting dignitaries where you are expected to interact appropriately, careers advice which included having alumni in to talk to you properly about their jobs (I remember Kate Aidie visiting to talk to us about the life of a foreign journalist at my private school. At sixth form college, we were given a printed leaflet…) Volunteer work was compulsory, the popular kids were the sports team captains, often on full scholarships, so status was based on achievement rather than parental wealth.

There was far more bullying of the poor kids/kids who didn't have the right clothes/kids who didn't have a car/kids who lived in the bad bit of town.

Obviously you've got such an entrenched view of how dreadful private schools are that none of this is going to resonate with you, but you surely have to admit that if there was 'no difference', a teacher at a state school wouldn't be going to a fair amount of trouble to get their high-achieving child into a top private school.

Please post the link to the facilities where comps can play water polo on a lake cheaper than having a kickabout with a football? I'm intrigued.

The 30 minute a week lesson out local state primary has is vastly different to the local prep with its own indoor pool.

I have decades of experience in schools, independent and state, and in fact have been in both this week.

And yet you believe that the IB is offered in "most" comprehensives. You're an idiot. The IB is offered in 190 schools in the UK, the vast majority of them independent. There are over 3000 states secondary schools in the UK. Only in the world of an idiot or a charlatan is a small minority from 190 "most" of 3000+. Stop making shit up.

Charis I agree with you.
I feel quite ground down by this subject and the fact that so many don't seem to care about segregating our kids into rich and poor. I also can't stand the patronising way people are accusing you of ranting. It's a good way of dismissing passion and emotion.

The arrogance is breathtaking of that head. How about some of the children at Rugby mix with children in the comp and the Rugby children take back what they have learnt to enrich their own segregated communities. Or better still, lets get rid of the segregation in the first place.

Water polo in a lake? My school offered it in a heated (Olympic sized) pool, so there is a bonus for starters.

well, the world championships are played in a lake, so I wonder who would be better prepared to play at that level!

The IB is offered in 190 schools in the UK you are looking at very out dated information, and a list that was incomplete even when published, in fact wasn't meant to be complete. Many schools offer IB that are not listed formally as IB school,s just as the official list of Btec schools is a list of those choosing to join the affiliation, not the number of schools that actually offer it.

You're an idiot I'm an idiot? You are the one who has paddled around in google and come back with the wrong information!

Thank you Twistedreach!

If the head ever replies to my email, I will let you know what he says.

Charis: where is this state school educational nirvana of which you speak? Of course there are good state schools. but they are not the majority. DS is at a very "normal" independent with a broad ability intake. On site they have acres of sports pitches, astro turf, tennis courts, indoor swimming pool, squash courts, a theatre, a dedicated music practice block.They offer IB and A levels. There is some event on most nights of the week. Education is 6 days a week. DS is a day pupil, but can stay for evening meal anytime and board for a few days by arrangement. There is an extensive door to door bus service. classes are small and they are incredibly flexible about subject choice.

You just cannot get all of those in the state sector.

charis I don't know any academic who does not believe that independent schools such as Rugby give an academic advantage ( and indeed a plethora of other advantages ). Not one!

That is why universities are making huge efforts to widen access

"so many don't seem to care about segregating our kids into rich and poor."

But apparently not the OP. Since private and state are equivalent (indeed apparently state is better resourced) there is apparently no problem. She also hasn't replied to why it is the case that 60% of Oxbridge to come from public schools (which apparently don't get better results), even though only 7% are educated there.

If you teach statistics, I'm the queen's uncle.

sorry for rogue 'to' in 'to come'

The private school day is 8:15 until 5pm, and is also 6 days a week. That leaves a LOT of time outside lessons for extra curricular activities without needing someone to drive you there, or juggle your preferences with those of your siblings. I think what you are saying here is that the independent schools are better at parenting, rather than educating

There are students competing at national and international level at a variety of sports in every state school I have contact with, either as a parent or a professional

Black tie events from an early age, visiting dignitaries where you are expected to interact appropriately, careers advice which included having alumni in to talk to you properly about their jobs (I remember Kate Aidie visiting to talk to us about the life of a foreign journalist at my private school. Volunteer work was compulsory

All of this is available at the local comps, ( substituting Kate Aidie for others of similar calibre)

But again, thank you for at least trying to answer my question.

My DC are getting a better education at their middle class leafy suburb with matching house prices comp than I did at a mediocre private day school.

However the top public boarding schools like rugby are a world apart from my school and will offer much more than any comp.

I think you are all wasting your time trying to discuss this with charis as she seems to have the most closed mind I have ever seen either here or anywhere else. She will deny facts that are presented to her (the city that doesn't offer A2 music at any of its schools was the example that struck me, as a music graduate and a keen musician).

It is pointless even trying to have a conversation with someone who so clearly thinks they are 100% right, and know everything, whilst everyone else knows nothing.

But apparently not the OP. Since private and state are equivalent (indeed apparently state is better resourced) there is apparently no problem. She also hasn't replied to why it is the case that 60% of Oxbridge to come from public schools

for the same reason that 100% of pupils at independent schools are independent school pupils zoemaguire

charis look at it the other way.

If all state schools offer, say, Latin, A level, why are some universities offering places on Classics degrees without it to those from state school?

Why if there is no academic advantage to private school do universities make contextualised

She will deny facts that are presented to her (the city that doesn't offer A2 music at any of its schools was the example that struck me, as a music graduate and a keen musician).

Which city doesn't offer A level music? I asked, but no one answered