Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Is anyone else more worried about M15 than about terrorism.

182 replies

batshitlady · 17/09/2015 17:03

That's it really. The state wants ever more surveillance power, ever more restriction on freedom of speech and even, in universities, freedom of thought. It seems to me that it's in their nature to ask for more powers and restrictions to our freedoms and privacy. Are we just going to let them have it???

OP posts:
MyBeloved · 24/09/2015 14:23

No, I'm more worried about isis to be honest.

LurkingHusband · 24/09/2015 15:54

MyBeloved

No, I'm more worried about isis to be honest.

I suspect that makes Rupert Murdoch MI5 very happy.

Atenco · 24/09/2015 17:38

Well remember Belfast in the 1970s when we had to go through army checkpoints several times a day just to go shopping. I was so often searched for bombs I started fantasising about how I could smuggle a bomb in. If it hadn't been for the checkpoints, never in a million years would it have crossed my mind to wonder how to smuggle a bomb in anywhere but what happens when this happens to someone with less of a grip on reality?

yeOldeTrout · 24/09/2015 19:03

MI5 have data that can't leave the premises. So data analysts who work on those data need to get to London.

MyBeloved · 24/09/2015 19:39

Do you doubt isis are a threat lurkinghusband?

LurkingHusband · 24/09/2015 19:41

No more than the Feinians ...

DontHaveAUsername · 24/09/2015 19:59

MyBeloved I think MI5 and ISIS are both threats when it comes to our civil liberties. If ISIS were to suceed in their dream of worldwide caliphate or whatever it is, our right to a fair trial, no arbitrary detention, protection against unreasonable search and seizure all vanished because that's not how they operate. MI5 and other security agencies seem to be doing the terrorists job for them, removing some of our rights supposedly as a tactic in the fight to protect our rights which is self defeating. My emails don't have the same legal protection against unreasonable search and seizure by the state, because GCHQ scans through all of them looking for keywords. In the past they would have needed a warrant. Whether it's deliberate corruption, or just sheer incompetence in not securing the data, I don't trust them.

MyBeloved · 24/09/2015 20:06

Riiiggghhhttt. So you're comparing a group who use technology to recruit, kill indiscriminately in any country, throw homosexuals off buildings, take women as sex slaves, abuse children, burn people in cages, behead people... to the 19/20th century fienans? ?

MyBeloved · 24/09/2015 20:09

donthaveausername I don't trust the government much but I trust isis less.

DadWasHere · 24/09/2015 23:57

Said Ben Franklin - towering polymath of the American Revolution.

Smart man indeed. Lived at a time when a musket in skilled hands could fire off a blistering 3 rounds per minute.

BoffinMum · 25/09/2015 14:25

Atenco, this accounts for the popularity of programmes like 'Hunted'. We all start to have a Plan B.

FWIW my theory is that MI5 started this thread, or at least have posted on here in some way, in order to gauge opinion about how their behaviour is being received by the equivalent of Worcester Woman.

What do we think they will take away from this thread?

LurkingHusband · 25/09/2015 15:14

Meanwhile, it emerges, GCHQ spied on every single web user in the world since 2009.

www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/gchq_tracked_web_browsing_habits_karma_police/

The lack of terror attacks since 2009 should be reason enough to give MI5 everything they want with no questions asked.

Atenco · 25/09/2015 16:11

FWIW my theory is that MI5 started this thread, or at least have posted on here in some way, in order to gauge opinion about how their behaviour is being received by the equivalent of Worcester Woman

Interesting point that, BoffinMum

HugoBear · 25/09/2015 23:48

I'm not worried about ISIS in the UK - their very clearly stated aim is to re-establish a Caliphate in the historic lands of the Levant. Their media offensive is to recruit foreign fighters from around the world and bring them to Iraq/Syria (which is why our domestic ISIS news is full of stories about British Muslims trying to get to Syria).

But like the original poster, I am worried about MI5. In 2006, they wrote a paper talking about the threats to the UK in the next 30 years and one of the predicted threats was a disaffected middle class turning to Marxism in the event of diminishing rewards for traditionally middle class roles.

In summary, the additional surveillance powers they want aren't to fight today's terrorists but to fight our children tomorrow.

And they want these powers with as little scrutiny as possible. Why else did the head of MI5 refuse to be questioned by a Commons Select Committee, yet was interviewed on Radio 4 by a deferential journalist who barely threw the softest of soft balls?

RebelliousScotsToCrush · 26/09/2015 08:24

The internet gives us enormous potential power to a) find out about the ways in which things are not as the mainstream media tell us they are (i.e. dubious actions of the super rich and powerful), and b) potentially organise very large numbers of people in protest. It is thus an enormous unprecidented threat to the status quo. It will therefore be increasingly controlled and policed, by stealth.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 29/10/2015 09:24

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34663929

This might be of interest, if anyone's still around on this thread. Tightening the screws...

DontHaveAUsername · 29/10/2015 16:13

"we do not, and could not, go browsing at will through the lives of innocent people".

That is exactly what they do, using computers to automatically run through every email sent and website visited looking for "suspicious" patterns and trends. Spy caught lying to people, what a surprise.

"We use these tools within a framework of strict safeguards and rigorous oversight, but without them we would not be able to keep the country safe."

You will never be able to keep the country safe, accept that fact right now. Even if everyone was microchipped and had built in mics and cameras that these spies could access at will, people would still be able to carry out terrorism. So while accepting that we can never be completely safe no matter how much power we give the spies, it becomes a matter of just how much power we are happy for them to have over us, while still not giving us any benefit in being safe.

"an increasing proportion of such communications are now beyond our reach"

Which is good news, we SHOULD have communications that are beyond the reach of the government. How else could we freely talk about dissent and opposition politics if we were worried that the government could be snooping on us at any time? They come out with all this stuff about safeguards but that's shite tbh, I've read about how common it is at the American NSA for analysts to be checking their partners emails and phonecalls. Not forgetting that when people know they MIGHT be being watched at any time, they self censor which is bad for democracy.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 29/10/2015 16:16

I absolutely agree, DontHaveA.

DontHaveAUsername · 29/10/2015 16:16

""And an increasing proportion of such communications are now beyond our reach - in particular with the growing prevalence of sophisticated encryption."

Like this?

-BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-
Version: GnuPG v1
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=e+LA
-END PGP MESSAGE-

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 29/10/2015 16:17
Grin
LurkingHusband · 02/11/2015 09:24

Be bs pbhefr, lbh pbhyq nyjnlf hfr Ebg-13 rapbqvavat.

(V xabj fbzr sbyxf jub hfr qbhoyr-EBG-13, sbe gung rkgen yriry bs frphevgl ....

DontHaveAUsername · 02/11/2015 12:33

Ebg13 vf abg rknpgyl ba gur fnzr yriry nf gur nqinaprq rapelcgvba fgnaqneq gubhtu vf vg.

LurkingHusband · 02/11/2015 14:03

Ornevat va zvaq gung gb n infg znwbevgl bs gur choyvp "frpher rapelcgvba" genafyngrf nf "Rkpry fcernqfurrg" (cnffjbeq bcgvbany) gura EBG-13 vf cebonoyl frra nf jvgpupensg.

Nf fb gryyvat qrzbafgengrq ol GnyxGnyx ynfg jrrx, sbe zbfg HX bhgsvgf, rapelcgvba vf fbzrguvat bgure crbcyr arrq gb qb.

Naljnl, nyy guvf sbphf ba pbzchgre rapelcgvba vf n gnq zvfcynprq vs lbh nfx zr. Jung nobhg unaqjevggra abgvprf va arjfntragf jvaqbjf. V jnf va n Ybaqba fhoheo erpragyl, naq abgvprq gung arneyl nyy gur nqiregf va gur jvaqbj jrer unaqjevggra va Nenovp fpevcgf (nygubhtu gur bqq jbeq jnf jevggra va Ratyvfu ... "qvfujnfure"). Tbq nybar xabjf jung gurl jrer fnlvat. Naq qbrf "Snefv-fcrnxvat syngzngr fbhtug" ernyyl zrna gung ? Be qbrf vg npghnyyl zrna "Wvunq vf ba. Oevat gur obzof gbzbeebj" ?

V ybbx sbejneq gb Zhzfarg trggvat n zvqavtug xabpx. Gur jbeq "wvunq" (bbcf, V qvq vg ntnva) va na rapelcgrq cbfg !

DontHaveAUsername · 02/11/2015 14:11

Mnhq should make a "encrypted text only" forum lol

DontHaveAUsername · 02/11/2015 14:12

In that one part of mumsnet you'd only be allowed to post coded or encrypted stuff and people would try guessing what it meant :)