Is anyone else more worried about M15 than about terrorism.

[batshitlady]

That's it really. The state wants ever more surveillance power, ever more restriction on freedom of speech and even, in universities, freedom of thought. It seems to me that it's in their nature to ask for more powers and restrictions to our freedoms and privacy. Are we just going to let them have it???

When the extra surveillance powers aren't enough because a terrorist slips through the net, what then? How much more power are you willing to give to faceless individuals on the premise of security?

By changing the levels of surveillance and invasion into privacy the whole nature of the relationship between the state and private citizens changes and not for the better, the further down the line you go the more the assumption is that everyone is guilty of something until they prove, or are proved, otherwise.

The thing is though, is that pedophiles and terrorists are not actually caught through mass spying and surveillance.
They are caught through Tip-Off. Which is the way it has always been since forever.

Mass surveillance of personal communications and private matters is in place to keep people compliant.

We are moving into a reality whereby, if you dare to be non-compliant by voicing your opinion against the status-quo, this can be dragged up from your past and used against you so you never enter a position of power.

emotionsecho, yy.

international mass surveillance by America within Europe has provided enormous commercial gain for America's wealthiest.

Not many terrorists caught though, err Isis anyone?

I think Edward Snowden had it spot on when he said:

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say,"

Of course the threat of terrorism is there, it always will be while we parade around the rest of the world getting involved in illegal wars over oil. However, you are very wrong if you think greater control over our privacy has anything to do with that.

I think a more likely explanation is the surge from the left.

Exactly Crumbled. I'm hesitating to see the bad in this.

Crumbledfeta. You would have been incarcerated or worse for "slagging off the government". That is precisely the problem.

That is what we are headed for.

In China and Korea, innocent people vanish from their family's lives for doing or saying something the gvt disapproves of.

Why are we in the allowing ourselves to be vulnerable to this style of control?

Not quite the same as North Korea squidzin

Cameron wants to destroy the European Human Rights Act. Basically this is so the Tories can eradicate employee rights, maternity pay and holiday pay. They dress it up vua press release, claiming it it all about "Terrorism" and "Protecting criminals".

Mass surveillance rings the same. They claim it is about protection and terrorism, but really it is about commercial capitalist advantage, state control and money.

Terrorists are and always will be caught through tip-off, not hacking.
.

Crumbledfeta brought up Korea, not me.

China, North Korea, whatever.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say," - sorry, but that's bollocks. There are plenty of differences. It's not some predetermined slippery slope - my right to say that I think Cameron's a wanker is not diminished if MI5 have the right to see or hear me say I think Cameron's a wanker.

ThroughThick, if you can't see the similarities you are living in bliss.

Yes you did Squidz'! In China and Korea

Hassled, you are lucky we have this freedom now, but we are allowing this freedom to be gradually eroded.

Not sure about bliss. Innocence? Well yes, I am. Innocent that is, so why worry?

Throughthick, How do you know where crumbledfeta lives! It sounds like China or N Korea to me!

Please tell me where it is illegal to slag off the government.

Why do you keep talking to me about CrumbledFeta? squidz?

Wow, there's a lot of fans of false dichotomies here today

I am not scared of either. I am sure they will do their best / worst respectively.

What I post on the Internet or whatever, well, there is no expectation of privacy there. I don't feel that there is more monitoring of post or fixed line comms than there ever was, as they need a warrant for that anyway. Big data is just as much a concern in relation to big corporations than anything else.

There are some issues but they have been ventilated in court recently.

Do you seriously think M15 are interested in you?

They haven't got enough employees to track actual terror suspects. How on earth do you think they will have enough people to track Mrs Smith from Southampton. They aren't interested in her medical records, emails or phone calls. They have enough work to be getting on with.