Is anyone else more worried about M15 than about terrorism.

[batshitlady]

That's it really. The state wants ever more surveillance power, ever more restriction on freedom of speech and even, in universities, freedom of thought. It seems to me that it's in their nature to ask for more powers and restrictions to our freedoms and privacy. Are we just going to let them have it???

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I totally agree, DontHave.

[DontHaveAUsername]

"Do I worry ? honestly no not really , MI5 will be watching all those in charge far more than me"

Everyone is watched, literally everyone. In the days of the GDR and the Stasi, their powers will restrained somewhat by the fact that they didn't have the ability to monitor everyone - Although they gave it a good shot. These days the technology is easily available for intelligence agencies to automatically read through all of our communications, setting up definitions for what is suspicious activity and will get flagged by the system. How can we trust these people not to abuse what they have? If someone in a position of power makes moves to curtail GCHQ or MI5 or MI6, it would be trivial for those agencies to dig around inside that persons private life and find some blackmail material.

They say that that humans only review the data when there are grounds to do it, but I think this is wrong. There wasn't any grounds to collect the data in the first place, so its irrelevant whether you find anything incriminating because the searching of the communications was itself groundless. That's conducting searches without grounds, in order to find grounds, to then justify your actions. To put it into a physical analogy it's like a police officer searching everyone in town simply because the odds are that someone in the crowd must be up to something illegal. He searches everyone for no reason, finds someone in possession of drugs, then uses those drugs as grounds to arrest and further investigate the person. He can argue that he only took action against someone when there were grounds to do so, but the only reason he found those grounds was because of an unreasonable search. That in my opinion should see the entire case thrown out, otherwise it doesn't deter police officers from abusing their power in this manner.

[frumpet]

Are they afraid of me ? not in the slightest , are they afraid of my children ? no more than I am ! Will there be a massive uprising and revolution in years to come ? I very much doubt it , people won't be ablt to spare the time off from work whilst saving 30 years for a house deposit ;)

[frumpet]

Do I worry ? honestly no not really , MI5 will be watching all those in charge far more than me , they are welcome to join me on my daily travels , they may need to sign confidentiality forms and wear visitor badges , which may be something new to them , but I am sure they will cope.

[LurkingHusband]

Alternatively, one could go very old school, and take advantage of the horribly limited education of the average intelligence officer ...


of sin praktice in failing to furrow theogonies of the dommed).
Trisseme, the mangoat! And the name of the Most Marsiful,
the Aweghost, the Gragious one! In sobber sooth and in souber
civiles? And to the dirtiment of the curtailment of his all of man?
Notshoh?
BUTT (maomant scoffin, but apoxyomenously deturbaned but
thems bleachin banes will be after making a bashman's haloday out
of the euphorious hagiohygiecynicism of his die and be diademmed).
Yastsar! In sabre tooth and sobre saviles! Senonnevero! That
he leaves nyet is my grafe. He deared me to it and he dared me
do it, and bedattle I didaredonit as Cocksnark of Killtork can
tell and Ussur Ursussen of the viktaurious onrush with all the
rattles in his arctic! As bold and as madhouse a bull in a meadows.
Knout Knittrick Kinkypeard! Olefoh, the sourd of foemoe
times! Unknun! For when meseemim, and tolfoklokken rolland
allover ourloud's lande, beheaving up that sob of tunf for to
claimhis, for to wollpimsolff, puddywhuck. Ay, and untuoning
his culothone in an exitous erseroyal Deo Jupto.At that instullt
to Igorladns! Prronto! I gave one dobblenotch and I ups with
my crozzier. Mirrdo! With my how on armer and hits leg an
arrow cockshock rockrogn. Sparro!

[DontHaveAUsername]

My phones keyboard quite often scrambles the words that I'm saying to the point where I wager it would give GCHQ supercomputer clusters a run for their money at times.

[LurkingHusband]

Mnhq should make a "encrypted text only" forum lol

Believe me, coming here as a first timer, it was all in code ....

[DontHaveAUsername]

In that one part of mumsnet you'd only be allowed to post coded or encrypted stuff and people would try guessing what it meant :)

[DontHaveAUsername]

Mnhq should make a "encrypted text only" forum lol

[LurkingHusband]

Ornevat va zvaq gung gb n infg znwbevgl bs gur choyvp "frpher rapelcgvba" genafyngrf nf "Rkpry fcernqfurrg" (cnffjbeq bcgvbany) gura EBG-13 vf cebonoyl frra nf jvgpupensg.

Nf fb gryyvat qrzbafgengrq ol GnyxGnyx ynfg jrrx, sbe zbfg HX bhgsvgf, rapelcgvba vf fbzrguvat bgure crbcyr arrq gb qb.

Naljnl, nyy guvf sbphf ba pbzchgre rapelcgvba vf n gnq zvfcynprq vs lbh nfx zr. Jung nobhg unaqjevggra abgvprf va arjfntragf jvaqbjf. V jnf va n Ybaqba fhoheo erpragyl, naq abgvprq gung arneyl nyy gur nqiregf va gur jvaqbj jrer unaqjevggra va Nenovp fpevcgf (nygubhtu gur bqq jbeq jnf jevggra va Ratyvfu ... "qvfujnfure"). Tbq nybar xabjf jung gurl jrer fnlvat. Naq qbrf "Snefv-fcrnxvat syngzngr fbhtug" ernyyl zrna gung ? Be qbrf vg npghnyyl zrna "Wvunq vf ba. Oevat gur obzof gbzbeebj" ?

V ybbx sbejneq gb Zhzfarg trggvat n zvqavtug xabpx. Gur jbeq "wvunq" (bbcf, V qvq vg ntnva) va na rapelcgrq cbfg !

[DontHaveAUsername]

Ebg13 vf abg rknpgyl ba gur fnzr yriry nf gur nqinaprq rapelcgvba fgnaqneq gubhtu vf vg.

[LurkingHusband]

Be bs pbhefr, lbh pbhyq nyjnlf hfr Ebg-13 rapbqvavat.

(V xabj fbzr sbyxf jub hfr qbhoyr-EBG-13, sbe gung rkgen yriry bs frphevgl ....

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

[DontHaveAUsername]

""And an increasing proportion of such communications are now beyond our reach - in particular with the growing prevalence of sophisticated encryption."

Like this?

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[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I absolutely agree, DontHaveA.

[DontHaveAUsername]

"we do not, and could not, go browsing at will through the lives of innocent people".

That is exactly what they do, using computers to automatically run through every email sent and website visited looking for "suspicious" patterns and trends. Spy caught lying to people, what a surprise.

"We use these tools within a framework of strict safeguards and rigorous oversight, but without them we would not be able to keep the country safe."

You will never be able to keep the country safe, accept that fact right now. Even if everyone was microchipped and had built in mics and cameras that these spies could access at will, people would still be able to carry out terrorism. So while accepting that we can never be completely safe no matter how much power we give the spies, it becomes a matter of just how much power we are happy for them to have over us, while still not giving us any benefit in being safe.

"an increasing proportion of such communications are now beyond our reach"

Which is good news, we SHOULD have communications that are beyond the reach of the government. How else could we freely talk about dissent and opposition politics if we were worried that the government could be snooping on us at any time? They come out with all this stuff about safeguards but that's shite tbh, I've read about how common it is at the American NSA for analysts to be checking their partners emails and phonecalls. Not forgetting that when people know they MIGHT be being watched at any time, they self censor which is bad for democracy.

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34663929

This might be of interest, if anyone's still around on this thread. Tightening the screws...

[RebelliousScotsToCrush]

The internet gives us enormous potential power to a) find out about the ways in which things are not as the mainstream media tell us they are (i.e. dubious actions of the super rich and powerful), and b) potentially organise very large numbers of people in protest. It is thus an enormous unprecidented threat to the status quo. It will therefore be increasingly controlled and policed, by stealth.

[HugoBear]

I'm not worried about ISIS in the UK - their very clearly stated aim is to re-establish a Caliphate in the historic lands of the Levant. Their media offensive is to recruit foreign fighters from around the world and bring them to Iraq/Syria (which is why our domestic ISIS news is full of stories about British Muslims trying to get to Syria).

But like the original poster, I am worried about MI5. In 2006, they wrote a paper talking about the threats to the UK in the next 30 years and one of the predicted threats was a disaffected middle class turning to Marxism in the event of diminishing rewards for traditionally middle class roles.

In summary, the additional surveillance powers they want aren't to fight today's terrorists but to fight our children tomorrow.

And they want these powers with as little scrutiny as possible. Why else did the head of MI5 refuse to be questioned by a Commons Select Committee, yet was interviewed on Radio 4 by a deferential journalist who barely threw the softest of soft balls?

[Atenco]

FWIW my theory is that MI5 started this thread, or at least have posted on here in some way, in order to gauge opinion about how their behaviour is being received by the equivalent of Worcester Woman

Interesting point that, BoffinMum

[LurkingHusband]

Meanwhile, it emerges, GCHQ spied on every single web user in the world since 2009.

www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/gchq_tracked_web_browsing_habits_karma_police/

The lack of terror attacks since 2009 should be reason enough to give MI5 everything they want with no questions asked.

[BoffinMum]

Atenco, this accounts for the popularity of programmes like 'Hunted'. We all start to have a Plan B.

FWIW my theory is that MI5 started this thread, or at least have posted on here in some way, in order to gauge opinion about how their behaviour is being received by the equivalent of Worcester Woman.

What do we think they will take away from this thread?

[DadWasHere]

Said Ben Franklin - towering polymath of the American Revolution.

Smart man indeed. Lived at a time when a musket in skilled hands could fire off a blistering 3 rounds per minute.

[MyBeloved]

donthaveausername I don't trust the government much but I trust isis less.

[MyBeloved]

Riiiggghhhttt. So you're comparing a group who use technology to recruit, kill indiscriminately in any country, throw homosexuals off buildings, take women as sex slaves, abuse children, burn people in cages, behead people... to the 19/20th century fienans? ?