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Does anyone else think the death penalty is being subtly made more thinkable?

136 replies

WhizzBangCaligula · 15/11/2006 14:48

Or perhaps unsubtly?

There have been a few cases recently of horrific murders, some involving the torture of victims beforehand. When you read the news reports on sentencing, they always say the murderer will be eligible for parole in 17 years, or 25 years or whatever.

Most people think life should mean life or at least as much of life as possible, like till 80. When MP's in the 60's voted for the abolition of the death penalty (against the will of the majority of voters) it was on the understanding that dangerous sadistic murderers would stay in prison until they were either very old men (usually men) or they died there. It was not on the understanding that a 29 year old would be sent to prison for torture and murder, and know that they would be let out at the age of 54, when they could still have a chance of a relatively normal life in the community, or indeed still be young enough to commit the same sort of horrible crime.

If someone asks me "what would you prefer? A life sentence or the death penalty for those people who killed that 15 year old/ that poor teenage girl who was raped, tortured, burned and murdered/ all those other victims who suffered horrifically and who will never have birthdays again?" I'd say life because I don't believe in the death penalty. (Sally Clarke and Angela Cannings could be dead now if we had it.) But if they asked if I'd prefer 25 years or the death penalty, then I'd say the death penalty frankly, because 25 years for having taken someone's life and hope and future and made them face death in agony and terror and put their friends and relatives through the anguish of that kind of loss seems shockingly frivolous to me - immoral in fact. And it seems to me that the authorities are deliberately making the death penalty more attractive by having these laughable sentences.

Am I just getting old and fearful or have I spotted a plot to butter us all up so that we'll find the re-introduction of the death penalty acceptable? Is this happening in other European countries (at the moment you can't be a member of the EU if you have the death penalty, but that could change)? Or is it just that it costs too much to keep brutal murderers in prison? Why doesn't life mean life? Why is the need for justice not being met, leading people to conclude that the death penalty needs to be re-introduced? I've met loads of people recently who have been life-long opponents of the death penalty but have changed their minds as a result of a few of these cases and the knowledge that the murderers will be out in their 40's and 50's (in some cases, even in their 30's)

Oh and I know the prison service is awful and prison needs reform, but this is about sentencing.

OP posts:
TheHighwayCod · 15/11/2006 14:48

never
too much risk of huge legal pay outs i they kille domsoen later foudn to be innocent

KathyMCMLXXII · 15/11/2006 14:54

God Caligula, your comment about Sally Clarke and Angela Cannings made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck - what a terrifying thought.

I have wondered similar things - not whether it is being done deliberately, but whether there will be a widespread change in attitude because of all these soft sentences. Like you I always thought I was utterly opposed to the death penalty but a few of these recent cases have made me think that at least if the death penalty had been in place then the innocent people who were murdered by released prisoners would not have died.
I think sadly it's part of the loss of the optimism of the 1960s, in which people believed that with the right education system, ending of poverty, etc, crime could be largely wiped out My guess is we are a lot more pessimistic about this now than our parents' generation were.

expatinscotland · 15/11/2006 14:54

No, I think the system is just in need of an overhaul, it's chaotic and outdated across the board, from sentencing on down.

TheHighwayCod · 15/11/2006 14:54

"because of all these soft sentences."

snetencing is in fact getting harsher

KathyMCMLXXII · 15/11/2006 14:56

But are people serving as much of the sentence, Cod?

beckybrastraps · 15/11/2006 14:56

No

beckybrastraps · 15/11/2006 14:57

To the OP question

TheHighwayCod · 15/11/2006 14:57

i haev no idea abotu that
i lose interst after they trot down stairs

less money is being spent on educationi n prsiona dn rehab
thats the issue

WhizzBangCaligula · 15/11/2006 14:59

Cod, sentencing across the board is getting much harsher, isn't it, but is it for murder? And things like sadistic crimes? (If so, then God knows what was going on - there's one report today of a man who killed a child who will be eligible for parole in 17 years.)

OP posts:
TheHighwayCod · 15/11/2006 15:00

eligible nto get it

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 15:02

i am against the death penalty because i am afraid that the wrong person could be executed. i don't know what my stance would be if i was sure that guilt could be proved beyond all doubt. and if the law wasn't often such an ass...

zippy34 · 15/11/2006 15:03

I think this is the real issue - reporting of eligibility for parole. Doesn't mean they'll necessarily be walking the street automatically at this point.

It's always reported as if this is their release date - not automatically the case.

Socci · 15/11/2006 15:09

Message withdrawn

TheHighwayCod · 15/11/2006 15:10

the judges and mags increasingly have to perfom big sums of sentence.
they are very determined to eb clear
hence eligiblilty has to ba a nnounced in court at sentincing aafaik

oyu lot are lucky "custody plus" was abandoned in the summer
that woudl haev made your hair curl

WhizzBangCaligula · 15/11/2006 15:43

What's custody plus?

OP posts:
Uwilalalalalala · 15/11/2006 16:04

So, if Britain brought back the death penalty would we be booted from the EU? Interesting...

This is also an issue in Texas. There is no life without parole so if you don't want someone to walk the streets ever again you have to go for the death penalty (not sure about other states).

Although I do know there was recently a big hoo ha in Illinois when a whole bunch of death row inmates were pardoned. Can't remember all the details but some people were mighty unhappy that these people were not only taken off of death row but pardoned and set free.

TinkersBollocks · 15/11/2006 16:06

Don't think we're being buttered up for it. Well, hasn't occurred to me that we are. But if it was reintrodued, we'd have to leave the EU first.

TinkersBollocks · 15/11/2006 16:08

Sorry, just read OP properly and see you've made that point.

"But if they asked if I'd prefer 25 years or the death penalty, then I'd say the death penalty frankly, because 25 years for having taken someone's life and hope and future and made them face death in agony and terror and put their friends and relatives through the anguish of that kind of loss seems shockingly frivolous to me - immoral in fact."

Still could never say yes to death penalty. Ever.

TinkersBollocks · 15/11/2006 16:09

Doesn't mean I want to weep when I read of every execution.

KathyMCMLXXII · 15/11/2006 16:15

I suppose most of the people who want to reintroduce the death penalty would probably quite like to leave the EU as well.

TinkersBollocks · 15/11/2006 16:16

Well, yes, think there would be a link.

Monkeytrousers · 15/11/2006 16:16

I don't know but then again I've stopped watching the TV news as it's so manipulative. I hope not.

Sobernow · 15/11/2006 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TinkersBollocks · 15/11/2006 16:34

lol at possibility of reoffending being a reason to kill them

Sobernow · 15/11/2006 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.