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MN jury, who is in the wrong here? the prison officer or the muslim prisoner?

44 replies

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 19:42

It is not in the news yet but it looks like it might get there.
An old school friend of dh's is a prison officer, dh bumped into him at the weekend and caught up on a bit of news.
This friend told dh that he might loose his job because of an incident at work, it went like this...

The friend had to do a routine search on a cell of a violent offender who is a muslim. The guard asked the prisoner if he had anything dangerous or illegal in his cell, or anything that the guard could hurt himself on. the prisoner answered no.
The guard then asked the prisoner if there was anything that he did not want him to touch in his room (All questions being protocol).
The prisoner then said he did not want his koran touched.
So the guard asked if the prisoner would hold it by the spine and fan the pages.
At this point the prisoner kicked off and the guard called for assistance as he felt threatened.
The two guards decided that the prisoner should not be in the cell during the search but that he could watch outside through the hatch. The prisoner agreed as the guards promised not to touch the koran.
So with the prisoner outside watching, the guard (dh's friend) went straight to the koran and tipped it up to reveal a hidden mobile phone and charger.

The guard got in serious trouble over this and his fate has not yet been decided.

Just wondered what opinions were on this?

(It might be worth adding that dh's friend is in no way a racist.)

OP posts:
hatwoman · 14/11/2006 20:32

the report I linked to about wormwood scrubs is shocking - in terms of senior level complicity - incident reports signed by senior managers where the guards involved are named as "officer nobody".

hulababy · 14/11/2006 20:33

Yes, I was a teacher too though, before moving to the prison.

stitchthezenmaster · 14/11/2006 20:33

totally agree with caligula on this.

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 20:36

must be a fascinating job hula and so worthwhile.
As a student nurse I got to look round the prison ship when it was at Portland. (still not sure why though)
Anyway it was so strange for me to have a glimps into this hidden world.
Was also quite surprised at how bad it smelt?!

OP posts:
Blandmum · 14/11/2006 20:36

The guy was pressing to test. He was obviously 'using' the Koran, and a hiding place.....so let's do a quick reality check here.....just how observant a muslim could he be?

a. he was in prison
b. he was using the holy book as a hiding place for contraband.

Totaly bollocks IMHO, and he was seeing what he could get away with!

JanH · 14/11/2006 20:37

Agree with Caligula - this is bloody mad

However logically the prisoner's refusal to hold the Koran and fan the pages was directly responsible for the alleged "offence" so bollocking the guard seems excessive - just a reminder to follow the protocol, however absurd, next time should have been enough.

(Incidentally I'm wondering how the 3 bastards who killed that poor boy in Glasgow are faring - according to the Sun the inmates were forming an orderly queue to dish out the same sort of treatment to them )

hulababy · 14/11/2006 20:39

It is fascinating and very wierd too sometimes. I find myself recounting tales to DH, saying things like "Spoke to this really nice lad today..." and then realise that he murdered someone or something equally as horrid. Or I will be complaining about how horrible some man was and then think "well yes, that's why he is there!" It is a very strange experience at times, as I see the prisoners in a very different light to others due to seeing them on a one to one basis. I never completely forgot what they have done though. I can't do that.

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 20:39

hatwoman that report is so awful, although after some of the stories I have heard, I can quite believe it.

It is weird how they have made such a big deal about dh's friends case then isn't it?

OP posts:
edam · 14/11/2006 20:39

So was the mobile hidden inside the Koran, ie pages had been hollowed out? Prisoner's not got a leg to stand on in that case. Only way I can see the guard being legitimately in trouble was if he hadn't followed whatever the procedure is. Clearly guards have to be able to search cells/prisoners/property.

hulababy · 14/11/2006 20:41

JanH - I think it is likely they will get what they deserve., In my experience it would appear to be the case, until the prisoner is relocated into a more secure wing for own protection.

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 20:42

yes the book was hollowed out.

Am really hoping this does make the news now[shocked]

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JanH · 14/11/2006 20:42

I really really hope so, hula

beckybrastraps · 14/11/2006 20:42

Of course, you only have his version of events to go by.

I don't mean the hollowed out Koran - clearly wrong.

But perhaps he wasn't quite as solicitous as he claims to have been?

Now I sound all bleeding heart - and I'm not at all, well, perhaps a bit - but he would surely only be in trouble if he didn't follow the procedures? Assuming there are some...

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 20:43

I mean not [shocked]

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Blandmum · 14/11/2006 20:44

Oh FFS, the guy though so little of the Koran, he cut it. the guy was lying, and using his religion to try to hide contraband.

There is no way on gods eath that he was in the right!

thankyoupoppet · 14/11/2006 20:45

could be becky, I know him as a really lovely guy but it is highly possible that the culture has rubbed off on him at work and, who knows, he could be a total bastard to the prisoners.
I believe what he has told us though.

OP posts:
beckybrastraps · 14/11/2006 20:46

MB - I'm not disputing that he was in the wrong.

beckybrastraps · 14/11/2006 20:47

I hope you're right and he's exonerated poppet.

Blandmum · 14/11/2006 20:50

No, I see that , and realised that my post looked as it if was in responce to yours....it wasn't. I didn't read your until I'd posted.

I'm not going to cross the woman who has calmed me down about dh's tummy probs

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