Anti-Austerity Demos

[SagaNorensLeatherTrousers]

Anyone planning on attending the big one happening June 20th? Or any local ones? Will be interesting to see how many go and what (if any) impact they will have.

I'm not an economist and I will never pretend to be one :) but I do see that inequality in our society is growing. I also know that many serious economists argue against austerity and there are very many articles about why it doesn't work. I'm not in a position to argue on the economics side, sometimes in life, you have to pick the expert opinion that most reflects what you think is right, even if you don't fully know/understand all of the nitty gritty detail. I accept I can't be expert in everything

I'll also add that I don't think many of the austerity measures are about national debt. I believe that the current administration are taking advantage of the situation to forward their fundamental philosophy that the state should deal with as little as possible and as much as possible should be in the hands of private companies.

Malice - quite

Ohyou - even if they are, so what? That "philosopy" is basically that private companies sometimes deliver things more efficiently than the state. For example, Tesco and Asda are rather good at supplying food to the masses at a reasonable price Would a "National Food Service" which was centrally controlled and allocated food to all on demand for free be less efficient or more efficient? Would you expect food to cost more or less? What about choice?

And an idealogy that basically seeks as little state interference as possible is not inherently A Bad Thing. I find it pretty offensive that many people (on MN, but less so in real life) equate being a bit right of centre politically with boiling bunnies for fun and laughing at the poor.

There is a legitimate debate to be had about the best way to address inequality. Handing out ever more taxpayers money to people in need is probably not the solution to it.

The thing is, I didn't start the thread to debate policy. I started the thread to ask if anyone else is going to the planned demos, and what impact we hope they will have.

Peacefully demonstrating is (for now) legal and a right, if you don't agree with it, great. But by arguing against those who are planning to attend, what are you hoping to achieve? To persuade people not to go?

Yes, it has been rather heavily derailed.

Perhaps those who want to debate policy could start a thread for it? It would attract more people.

Though I'm not sure I really know what to say to someone who states that a deficit not reducing quickly is proof of the existence of a generous welfare state. But if they'd like to start a thread, I will duly shred them on it.

sorry Saga!
The weather still looks lovely :)

info about the march

Which tube stations are people planning to use?

I want to go but I've just moved to a new area and don't know anyone else who is going from here. It wouldn't have bothered my when I was younger but sadly it does now. —And it would mean that I get out of having to help with the school fete--

That's ok OhYouBad, just don't do it again!

Really wasn't aimed at you, actually, as you had to take a somewhat defensive stance when the anti-austerity naysayers popped on the thread.

Obviously threads get derailed, and that's cool, it's just a constant ballache to have to defend reasons WHY we feel want or need to protest, which shouldn't be necessary as it's our right to do so.

Of course you have the right to protest. However, it would seem a bit odd to go to the effort of attending a march/demonstration but then not be prepared to engage with people that perhaps don't share your view.

Marching is one thing (and it's to be applauded) but frankly it doesn't articulate an argument. It demonstrates strength of feeling (which is no bad thing) but it surely has to be done alongside other forms of engagement.

Malice almost all of my spare time is currently dedicated to dealing with the outcome of cutbacks. It's absolutely doing me in at present! It's nice to have a thread just to talk about practicalities and generalities of the day without having to defend oneself.

I'm really glad that saga started this thread.

Hear, hear OhYouBadBadKitten. I engage with the opposition all day every day, just want a space to talk about our plans.

Thanks for the weather updates, as well. I'm glad it's looking good there next week...where I am is not looking so great!

Totally offering moral support whether i get to go or not (small baby).
Could reply to some of the frankly absurd pro-austerity comments i read on this thread, but for now just a message if support!

tHank you :)

I will be marching, along with my DH, DM and Dd.
Shall we wear a MN scarf to recognise fellow mumsnetters

Ha, good idea!!

Of course it's people's right to march if they want. But I feel it's a bit discredited for the left wing at the moment. They seem to be able to make a lot of noise and are effective at silencing other people, but they can't translate that into widespread support.

yes exactly.

The left seem very effective on social media and on demonstrations

but actually its not achieving anything like the shift in attitudes that they hoped for surely?

Might be a bit warm for a scarf! Looking at around 20C I think and hopefully dry.

That's good news, OYBBK. Shall take some water!

"The left"
Do you actually know who that is?

Left/right is BS. You get Communists on the left who believe the state should run everything.

You get Trade unionists in the left who are against floodgate immigration because of how it over saturates the labour pool compressing wages.

You get socialist left who believe free movement of labour for everyone is essential.

You get nationalist left such as SNP you get Euro-flag left you get wealthy elite left you get poverty left.

Labour party faux-left, Green pick n mix left, ukip right-left...

You get all sorts of conflicting views coming from the left and none of these views are truly represented by the business-wealth-capitalist lobby government of Westminster.

The march has nothing to do with left or right. Everything to do with the austerity measures which are designed to increase the wealth divide. And break up our country.

Keep the poorest destitute, make people desperate and then they will do anything. They'll scrub our floors for £1 it'll be great for the economy. People will work for free because of these job centre reforms brilliant!

Yeah crime levels will go up, suicides will go up, all good. If your poor you deserve to be in prison or dead.

Yes. I'm aware that the left covers various different viewpoints. On account of having read a few hundred books and thousands of newspapers. But hey, you're left wing, it wouldn't fit in with your narrative that somebody could be perfectly well educated and disagree with you.

The vast majority of people on that march will identify as left wing, and anti austerity is heavily tied in with left wing anti right politics.

I am myself part of the working poor. I voted Tory like a lot of other people because under Labour the working poor were given a kicking because Labour sees state dependency as the only way out.

Ah, excellent! There's a "short march" start point on Whitehall, to make the march accessible for those of us who would have struggled. Also wheelchair space at the front of the stage, and BSL interpreters.

Details here.

I was planning to drop out after the first stretch; now I can do the last stretch and rally instead. This is very well organised!

Brilliant, thanks for posting that Pausing. I'm staying at home but DH is gearing up and getting ready to go. He's taking a Union-organised coach.

That is good news :)

I must admit it's a bit odd to see our resident weather guru in the thick of a thread about demos.

It's a bit like seeing Huw Edwards standing up at the end of the news and giving a party political broadcast for the Labour Party.

I know you have other interests OYBBK, but it does feel strange.