so did Nicola Sturgeon say she wanted Cameron as PM? [title edited by MNHQ]

[agentEgypt]

Not surprised at all. Now what were all the SNP supporters saying about them being different?

Guardian quotes Carmichael as accepting the info in the memo was wrong. Even the Daily Fail carries the same account. Bear in mind Carmichael never even saw the memo, it would be hard for him to swear to its truth!
OP I can see how you have misunderstood the situation but your OP is sensationalist rubbish and I'm not sure of its legality. You should apologise at very least or preferably withdraw your post.
If Sturgeon did lie I would be among the first to condemn her. It seems odd here that another high-ranking politician has admitted to lying, yet you have no comment to make on his actions.

Interesting that all the comments under that Indy article say it's very poor journalism and that the Indy slant is at odds with what everybody else is saying. Thanks to one of those comments, I've now found the actual memo on the Telegraph site. So we've got a memo from A saying 'B told me that C told himthat in a brief rushed conversation at the end of a busy day Nicola Sturgeon said this...' Hmmm.

^Discussion with the French Consul-General
6 Mar 2015^
Just had a telephone conversation with Pierre-Alain Coffinier (PAC), the French CG. He was keen to fill me in on some of the conversations his Ambassador had during her visit to Scotland last week. All of this was given on a confidential basis, so please limit any onward circulation.

...

The Ambassador also had a truncated meeting with the FM (FM running late after a busy Thursday…). Discussion appears to have focused mainly on the political situation, with the FM stating that she wouldn’t want a formal coalition with Labour; that the SNP would almost certainly have a large number of seats; that she had no idea ‘what kind of mischief’ Alex Salmond would get up to; and confessed that she’d rather see David Cameron remain as PM (and didn’t see Ed Miliband as PM material). I have to admit that I’m not sure that the FM’s tongue would be quite so loose on that kind of thing in a meeting like that, so it might well be a case of something being lost in translation.

FM being First Minister, presumably.

why not just delete this thread?

Why would this thread be deleted?

The issue is squarely In The News, what with being in a broad sheet newspaper.

Trojan, it's not the thread as such, it's the slanderous thread title.

Gasp0de, thanks for that, very interesting to read it.

The comments under the article are because its been hijacked by scot Nats, if you've seen any of their sites its those types...

The Indy is one of the resources I trust the most, way more than the torrygraph or the BBC!

This thread should be deleted? Do you want the indyto recall and destroy all their newspapers today also?

The thread title is no more slanderous than what the Indy reported. And I'm safe assuming their legal team know better than MN pearl clutchers furiously hitting report to demand something is deleted.

They probably will delete it as they do pander to the masses, irrelevant of if it's the right thing or not.

Thread title was said by a reporter on LBC. So should they have their radio licence removed also?

Ok let's get back to basics. What evidence is there that NS lied? The report did not find this. Have you read the actual memo?
However there is incontrovertible evidence that AC lied. But let's not focus on that?

Gosh, you seem very worked up about this, agentEgypt.

Now that you've prompted me to look into this story, what I see is:

Nicola Sturgeon meets the French Ambassador during a very busy time for both of them. They have a short conversation, presumably in English. I'm sure the Ambassador speaks excellent English but it's not her first language and NS speaks fast with a Scottish accent and may possibly use some Scottish colloquialisms. They don't know each other either. All of this leads to the possibility of confusion about what exactly NS is saying.

After the meeting, the Ambassador reports the substance of the conversation to the French Consul-General in Edinburgh. She translates NS's remarks into French, obviously.

At some subsequent point, the CG speaks on the phone in English to a civil servant. Amongst other things, he repeats the substance of the Ambassador's report about the conversation, obviously translated from French.

The civil servant then writes a brief memo recording the main points of this long, wide-ranging conversation. S/he notes what the CG says with some scepticism that this is what NS actually said.

It's not exactly a smoking gun, is it?

Watergate it ain't.

Well if so many people hadn't of called me a lier , on glue , drunk and unable to read just for saying what the Indy reported I wouldn't of got so annoyed.

You can disagree with someone without going to insults.

The notion of a politician not lying is indeed slanderous. This is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Better develop a very thick skin once you're in Westminster. And the days of Labour, SNP = good and Tories , coalition= bad are long gone. So get over it!

she did apologise op, blamed the drink

Hi all,

We've had quite a few reports about this thread - mostly about the title. We're happy to let the discussion run but have now edited the title so it's less accusatory.

I think if the thread is going to remain, in order for new readers to understand the vehemence of people's reactions, they need to know that the OP explicitly accused Nicola Sturgeon of having lied in the original title of the thread.

Rather than focussing on who had admitted to lying and who had then allowed £1.4milluon of Punic money to be spent on uncovering his own actions.

I did suggest an alternative title but for some reason MN didn't use it

I think that's fair enough thanks dawn. I was reacting to the LBC show where they did say the same thing, and now I know its not quite as clear cut.

Although the Indy have made their mind up on the matter.

Sturgeon has tweeted the letter she received from AC which states "I accept that its publication was a serious breach of protocol and that the details of that account are not correct".

Newspapers rush to be first, don't check properly and often get things wrong. They'll often refuse to admit a mistake, particularly if it's an embarassing one or they are worried about libel damages.

Politicians also lie often whenever their lips move but it is usually opinions about their policies, i.e. merely conning the British public
An MP who factually lies to damage another politician is potentially in a lot of trouble.

Carmichael is in even more trouble:
. His lie cost £1.4 million
. He involved a foreign ambassador & consul. France are miffed. If they were a hostile country, the consequences could have been very serious
. This type of leak may break the Official Secrets Act

The SNP reported him to the parliamentary commissioner for standards, Kathryn Hudson. Likely next steps:

. She is expected to find that there is reason to investigate and then she will submit her findings to the parliamentary committee on standards, which has the power to recommend sanctions, including the suspension of an MP.

. The recommendation is then voted on by MPs on the floor of the Commons.

. MPs will probably vote to suspend Carmichael for 10 days or more

. This would then automatically trigger a new process under the Recall of MPs Act (which the Liberals were responsible for introducing !):

. If at least 10% of Carmichael’s constituents sign a petition calling for a byelection, then one must be held. A local newspaper there has been running a poll and 95+% want him to go.

btw, I want Scotland to stay in the UK, but there has been so much neglect and stupidity over the years, that I think they'll gradually move out

The Telegraph had time to contact Willie Rennie for comment, but didn't speak to Nicola or the French consulate. There seems to have been a couple of days between the leak and publication, so it wasn't all that much of a rush. You have to query the agenda here.

Carmichael must go, resignation is the only honourable way out for him now.

Whether she said it or not I think it is quite likely Sturgeon's preferred outcome for the election was for Cameron to remain as PM. If she did see Miliband as not being PM material she was hardly alone in that view. And since Scottish Labour and the SNP have spent years demonising the Tories and telling Scots they are more "progressive" (i.e. more left wing) than England (true in terms of voting pattern but not true in terms of attitudes) it suits the SNP's agenda to have a Tory PM. It allows them to continue to push the line that breaking away from the rest of the UK is necessary to avoid Tory rule. Similarly it will help the SNP if Scotland votes to stay in the EU but England votes to leave in the coming referendum, regardless of the overall UK result. Anything that appears to show Scotland is different can be used to support the case for independence.

That's rather convoluted.
If the SNP had been supporting a minority Labour government, which was the expected election result, they would have had massive leverage to get concessions. Cameron doesn't need the SNP at all.

"whether she said it or not"
Why would the French ambassador bother to lie if Sturgeon did say that ? The French minuted the meeting at the time and their notes don't show this either. They are seriously miffed at getting drawn into this.
You seem to want to believe a memo written by someone who wasn't there, from a phone report from someone else.

btw, anyone else find it odd that the Scottish Office solicits information from foreign diplomats about private meetings with the Scottish First Minister
Is the Scottish Office spying on the Scottish Government / SNP for Westminster - or for the Civil Service, who have their own agenda ??

I think we're going to lose Scotland, if the Civil Service already regard it as a foreign country / colony to be spied on.

"I think we're going to lose Scotland, if the Civil Service already regard it as a foreign country / colony to be spied on."

I think Scotland is going to lose Scotland if the 'roaring' nationalist make such big issues over nothing much, so domestically they gain further sympathy from those who previously 'no' as being the picked on pussy cats.

The SNP lied for their own ends that an independent Scotland could retain the Pound, retain access to the UK's interest rates/government bond markets and could financially support themselves - all against what they were being told by the UK government, BoE and private economists - yet no one resigned from power apart from Salmond (for failure rather than lying) only to emerge as a string puller in Westminster.

What is the real discredited sacking offence for damages done, mass deception to gain national power and their own political ends, or peddling a mistruth(?) that 'Nicola luvs David' when EVERY word coming out of her mouth since god knows when, in every speech, and leaders debate, contradicted that heresay?

Of course Scotland will go, the vote will keep happening until it does.

The sooner the better, I blame labour for starting the idea that Scotland is just a colony of London, that most Scot Nats believe.