Alistair Carmrmichael

[Ursaminor]

When is the lying nyaff going to resign, or has he no shame at all?

Thanks for the links, but they don't really answer the question (and the first says he spent £20k, not £30k). Being found not to have breached the ministerial code isn't quite on a par with admitting to telling carefully-timed blatant lies, is it?

No it's not the same - I believe the foreign Governments who rejected AS's claim that he held talks with each of them and that he used this to lie to the Scottish electorate in the lead up to the referendum to further his own cause, and I believe that "the advice did not exist and he spent £20,000 of taxpayers’ money going to court to keep this secret". A lie is a lie in my book - it's not a case of his lie is bigger than his, or he stole more than him.

The way I read it, he said he'd talked to people in those gvts. The DTel then has named individuals saying, "Well, he didn't speak to me!", which isn't actually the same as Alex not speaking to anyone in those gvts, iyswim?

The difference is that if AS lied, the whole thing was out in the open before the referendum, and well before this GE. People knew what they were voting for - there was no reveal of new info immediately after the referendum or GE.

In Carmichael's case, the inaccurate info he leaked was directly before the election, and was information explicitly damaging to opponents. Carmichael also lied about the leak directly before the election, then days after the election admitted it was him. His lies may well have had a direct impact on the election result, especially as the margin was so tight in his constituency.

I don't think anyone is demanding he be hung, drawn, and quartered, but I do think it is fair for a by-election to happen so that his constitituents can vote for him, or not, based on real information.

No Hirples - the Govts of those countries had not spoken to him (further down the page and not just a DT link). The timing of AS's lie is immaterial - he should not have lied about something as major as that full stop. He should have also made damn sure that he paid for those trousers himself at point of sale as opposed to charging the taxpayer. As I said though, I don't believe in justifying any lie or pocket lining my any MP.

www.scottishlegal.com/2015/05/28/the-people-versus-carmichael-what-would-have-to-be-proven-for-legal-action-to-succeed/

Moving on from circular arguments, this is an interesting article in light of the successful crowdfunder.

Yes, arguments about politicians and their dubious collective behaviours often becomes circular.

Interesting article - will be interesting to see how things develops. If nothing else comes out of it I do hope that politicians from all parties take note - too many of them have too little regard for the truth or integrity.

We can agree on that. ?

Absolutely. There are very few politicians who behave with integrity imo - what they get away with is staggering and certainly wouldn't be tolerated in any other workplace.

I hope Carmichael goes. The arrogance is astounding. I hope the SNP don't let up and there is a by-election or something that will remove him.

As an aside, just saw SNP MP Tommy Shepphard on the Daily Politics. How refreshing to see a normal, decent non-spinner as a politician.

And that broadcast/lesson on the ethics of leader resignations came from the UKIP Party.

Claig ... re Tommy Sheppard, how spooky, I had previously offered a similar opinion on the other SNP thread.

I worried I'm slipping into ....something...now. lol

Nuts .. you realize this malicious rumour about us being one and the same will resurface again.

Really? The man who says "we sent the British Establishment a message and we gave them a shock. On the 7th of May we can visit upon them their worst nightmare", claiming "it wasn't us that wanted to be in the United Kingdom. They [the right-wing press] have a cheek to suggest to people in Scotland that there is something illegitimate, something to be questioned about the democratic choices they make.." and the "the useless, selfish English public voting" Yeah, absolutely - if that's your definition of normal and decent non-spinning political rhetoric. It's very much the SNP spinning in my world.

I've just read your comment on the other thread and I agree entirely. It just shows how stunned we all are, whatever party we support, to see a decent human being who answers a straight question and doesn't spin as an elected MP. Long may it continue and may Farage soon join the rare ranks of politicians who give straight answers.

"Nuts .. you realize this malicious rumour about us being one and the same will resurface again.'

No because there is a big difference. One of us speaks UKIP common sense and the other speaks Conservative claptrap. One of us is Dr Jekyll and the other is Mr Hyding for Nothing.

"Really? The man who says "we sent the British Establishment a message and we gave them a shock. On the 7th of May we can visit upon them their worst nightmare"

Sounds very much like fighting Farage talk. Top stuff!

SirChenjin .... I admitted I spoke as I found, with no previous research .... but maybe, just maybe, all anti establishment wannabees once IN Westminster become 'all growed up' and part of the establishment. Fingers crossed.

Claig ... and that includes Herr Farage the UKIP dictator, believing his 8th attempt to become a Westminster MP, will be a charm.

Claig ... re your "No because there is a big difference. One of us speaks UKIP common sense and the other speaks Conservative claptrap. One of us is Dr Jekyll and the other is Mr Hyding for Nothing."

Funny.

I'm so glad Moscow authorized a REVERSAL of that sense of humour by-pass operation they originally gave you and all the other newbees.

Keep the intended belly larfs, on top of the ones on your propaganda, coming.

I can't imagine that Sheppard would be too happy to be linked in any way to Farage claig

Isit - that predictable 'Freeeduuuuuum' speech was made last month at the SNP party (to a delighted crowd, natch). It will be deliciously ironic if they do become all growed up once they become part of Westminster - god knows, at the moment it's like watching the Clampits On Tour

Hiding this thread now - I promised myself I wouldn't post about the bastarding SNP any more as it plays havoc with my blood pressure

"And the first thing you know, Jed's a millionaire, his kin folk said 'move away from there', so they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly; Hills that is, swimming pools, movie stars".

SirChenjin ....I remember the opening song of the Beverly Hillbillies as if yesterday - I suspect that we share a similar age. lol

I suspect you are right in that I had similar low expectations, there was only one way to go, up.

Hirples - there you go - not only did he lie he spent our money trying to hide the lie

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10367759/Alex-Salmond-spent-20000-keeping-secret-non-existent-EU-legal-advice.html

Ah, thank you for that, cdtaylornats. I came across the following link this afternoon, and swithered about posting since it was re-opening an argument I'd agreed closed. But you've given me the opportunity, and I'll happily seize it.

It's quite a long read, but thoroughly referenced.

www.ponsonbypost.com/index.php/news/25-lying-again-will-not-save-carmichael

In shorter form, but also well referenced (as ever) but it's Wings so I know some will utterly discount it...

wingsoverscotland.com/playing-tricks-on-memory/

Salmond should sue then.

Andrew Neil had another go at him over this on This Week BBC1 on Thursday night.