Jordanian Pilot burned to death by IS

[LouiseBrooks]

Moaz al Kassasbeh, the young Jordanian pilot being held captive by IS, has apparently been burned alive. Obviously this is not a link to the video but rather to the story.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11387756/Jordanian-pilot-burned-alive-in-new-Isil-video.html

Apparently he's been dead for 3 or 4 weeks so the whole hostage negotiation that's been going on was a complete sham. Just when I thought that these savages couldn't get any worse. It shows that Muslim, Jew, Christian, atheist, we must all join together to fight against these maniacs.

Evacuate the civilians and the Kurds and just napalm/gas/nuke the remaining Isis rebel.......if only.

There will be more British boots on Iraq soil before the end of the year, a small group of paratroopers are already there helping the Kurdish, some 100 I believe the press reported.

post edited by MNHQ to say that this link contains a very distressing image of a dead infant

Sorry everybody. I hadn't actually scrolled down the whole page, so I didn't realise what was on there, or I would have just quoted.

meditrina Apologies for the delayed reply. I don't think military ground action is the only option left. I suspect several Western and other governments are pandering to oil/arms sales/regional traction in Middle East/Sub Saharan area. I think tougher economic action could be taken against "friendly" regimes in the area.

As far as future holds, I think the best outcome would be the emergence of new smaller autonomous regions. I don't hold out much hope.

Which are the 'friendly regimes'? (Genuine question)

Or perhaps those we want to keep relatively friendly, so they do not fund or give other support?

Some posters here really didn't like it when the PM went to Saudi Arabia following the death of the king, and the full niceties of diplomatic protocol applied to flags etc, but isn't that one of the places the coalition needs on-side?

Interesting article in The Independent today by Robert Fisk

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-if-the-saudis-arent-fuelling-the-militant-inferno-who-is-10024324.html

Of course we suck up to the Saudis because of oil and because it is considerable a stable regime, unlike many of the others. The appalling human rights record, plus the spread of Wahabism coming out of Saudi tends to be ignored.

It's too easy to say it's any one cause.

A lot of these people grew up under dangerous repressive regimes .... Saddam was no angel. Nor were the Russians in Afghanistan. Nor was Ayatollah Khomeini (sp?).

Add the natural inclination to rebel PLUS the extremist funding of the madrassas where boys are taught from 6+ about the distorted values of 'islam' -plus- the effects of masculine wildness when not living in a stable society -plus- the more extreme parts of the Body of Faith.

It's also very difficult to talk of a full invasion, which is the only way to get rid of IS in Iraq.

haven't the US already tried that? Look what happened ... ahem. IS. If anyone is going to invade, it needs to be done with sufficient resources, effectiveness and ability to get the population on their side.

That boat sailed about 8 months after the US didn't go in after the first Iraq war. Broken promises that left thousands and thousands dead.

I've just seen this on the BBC site - IS claiming that a US hostage has been killed in a coalition airstrike.

Unverified.

I suppose it could be by chance, or arising from the use of human shields (in which case, how did anyone actually know where the hostages were deployed?)

Or, given the increasing depravity of the videoed killings, a mercy killing mission?

I was wondering about her. She has been alluded to but not named.

Thank god she is beyond suffering now.

in which case, how did anyone actually know where the hostages were deployed?

Previous special ops missions have had pretty up to date intelligence, haven't they? There are people on the ground risking everything to supply information, clearly.

Wasn't it possible to deduce the same about attempts to rescue previous hostages? Cantlie?? Even going back to previous conflicts in the region and the abortive attempt to rescue Bigley etc? CIA and local dissenters....

We know there are resistance groups in Raqqa, because footage has been smuggled out.

(She had previously been alluded to but not named)

I'm not sure that the intelligence picture is relevant to human shields.

Because if you're deploying (valuable) hostages in the hope that the sites won't be bombed, then surely you tell the bombers where they are (or you are bluffing that they are) rather than hope that someone betrays it in a timely fashion.

But if the coalition had got enough intelligence, about whereabouts and intended fate of a hostage, then it's a case of whether anyone can make the decision to deliver quick death in massive explosion rather than leave to whatever may be planned by the captors.

I've just seen this on the 10 O'Clock news.

They stressed the claim could not be verified, and that it was odd they said no other casualties (wouldn't she have been well-guarded?)

Might it have been just an attempt to ratchet up pressure in Jordan - accusing them of killing a U.S. citizen, and of carrying out raids on those at prayer.

Or it might be as simple as to tell the world about this hostage. Her identity had not been public before.

Would they really use a US hostage as a human shield? Surely the possibility of a mercy strike is known?

Is the 'story' not that the guards were praying elsewhere?

Murky.

I hope she is dead, for her own sake

My heart goes out to her family so so much

I know ISIS have killed thousands horribly but this story has disturbed me so so much I cant even say.

I guess that's what they want though, to scare and give us all nightmares and boy have they suceeded

this is NOT religion

ah the good ole days of the Taliban and Al Quada hey

My guess is that the intended audience is Jordan, as well as US, wider Middle East, other aligned groups and the world at large.

The King of Jordan marched in Paris in January, whilst the pilot was missing (but probably after he had died). That didn't get much coverage in the European press, but was probably very significant to other audiences.

Agree auntie . There is a world if media and chat we don't know. Probably because it's in Arabic !

But poor poor man , martyred in front of the world

I wondered what really happened to the American girl . She worked for medecin sans frontieres which is so fucking sad

It's likely to get to the rage that all aid workers need to pulled from Iraq and Syria . For obvious reasons

UAE has restarted participation in air operations which suggests that if the aim was straightforward dissociation from the coalition, it's failing.

But might that not be the aim at all? Are they banking on there being no land operations, and so pursing the information war as an end in itself?

Someone is buying their drugs , oil and funding them. Who - that's what we need to know

Anyway I'll leave it to the many intelligence agencies who I assume have this base covered

If this awful death makes the rest of the Middle East turn away then it's good . Hate to say they won't give a fuck about US and UK be heading but the poor pilot will I hope lose them votes ?

I'd say it's the method of murder that is the real thing here. It's not just Westerners who've been beheaded - quite a few Arab journalists have suffered the same fate , but the fact this young man was killed in such a disgusting way has really hit home I think.

What chills me is we have this image of barbaric animals, but apparently some are highly educated and one would have think not the easiest targets to brainwash/radicalise.

SKY have just reported a statement by President Obama that they now have proof that Kayla Jean Mueller has died.

On the same, a U.S. intelligence expert believes the death of the American woman, blaming Jordan, was a direct retaliation for Jordan killing the failed female suicide bomber I.S. wanted released - which kinda makes sense I.S. execution style - when the 'bombed' buildings shown that were supposedly holding her hours earlier, were not even smoldering.

To really go after I.S. with boots or anything else, the UK would have to have the option of taking limited military action in Syria against their main command centres which Cameron asked for, but was refused by parliament, on behalf of the people - who are still waiting for a Chilcot Report on the Iraq invasion, said now to be very critical of many politicians with some still in parliament.

Only now 4 million Syrian refugees and a recent estimate of 6 million Syrian children needing help, of which the refugees being outside Syria is the easier for us to help, which apparently we are e.g. tents on the ground.

Yes, they've not said anything about the manner of her death, just that they now have proof that she is dead.

Separately, Assad has been on the news today. Seeing that the opposition groups in Syria included IS, it gives a different perspective to what is needed to govern an area securely. Democracy is all well and good if everyone wants to live in a democratic society. But when you have jostling violent groups, is the least worst option the autocrat who can prevent them doing harm?

AuntieStella …… YES, if that autocrat is Assad of Syria, invader of the Lebanon (29-years) leaving Hezbolla behind to run things, who I also saw today denied dropping barrel bombs (of explosives and chemicals) on civilian homes from helicopters, so effective in displacing so many Sunni Syrians e.g. in Aleppo, using such clear terror tactics banned by the U.N. for months, the population has fallen from 3 million to 300,000.

news.sky.com/story/1325488/un-says-syria-may-have-used-chemical-weapons

Similar to the rest of the Middle East’s conflicts, in Syria the conflict is about Shia versus Sunni religion, with Assad an Alawite (a brand of Shia) the minority in Syria, who began the civil war by killing peaceful protesters – so while he is in place, the Sunni majority (he calls rebels) will never agree to live under Assad again.

“Arab uprising: Country by country – Syria”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12482309

“The wave of popular unrest that swept the Arab world came late to Syria, but its once peaceful uprising has evolved into a brutal and increasingly sectarian armed conflict.”

I.S. has been able to take advantage of the Shia – Sunni situation in Iraq and Syria to try and form their caliphate straddling the two countries, the Sunnis in Iraq under Saddam in power until the last war, losing out to the Shia as the power pendulum then swung the opposite way.

“Iraqi Sunnis' long struggle since Saddam”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25559872

Clearly Sunni I.S. that grew enormously once the conflict started can not remain in control of Syria, so in theory the best option is the Syrian rebels, but they are split.

But in the early days, if the anti Assad coalition could have 'taken out' much of Assad's military hardware in the air and on the ground moving around Syria bombing the bejezus out of Syrian 'rebels', IMO Assad's equipment advantage and means to kill innocent civilians could have been neutralized, stopping around 9 million from being displaced.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-plans-for-military-action-in-syria-shot-down-in-dramatic-commons-vote-8788612.html

The Syrian conflict started in 2011. The vast, vast number of numbers of Syrian deaths have been at the hands of the Assad regime, not ISIS. Assad helped ISIS grow, they suit his purposes extremely well: m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/assad-and-the-art-of-the-devils-gambit/374501/

The person destroying the country and perpetrating most of the harm IS Assad:

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-government-forces-killing-hundreds-of-civilians-in-air-strikes-as-world-watches-isis-10023425.html

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/20/evidence-industrial-scale-killing-syria-war-crimes

They are threatening to do the same to 17 more prisoners.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2952924/ISIS-releases-video-claiming-17-Kurdish-fighters-humiliating-caged-procession-Iraqi-city-Kirkuk.html

I can't find the story in the quality media ATM.