Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Jordanian Pilot burned to death by IS

104 replies

LouiseBrooks · 03/02/2015 20:36

Moaz al Kassasbeh, the young Jordanian pilot being held captive by IS, has apparently been burned alive. Obviously this is not a link to the video but rather to the story.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11387756/Jordanian-pilot-burned-alive-in-new-Isil-video.html

Apparently he's been dead for 3 or 4 weeks so the whole hostage negotiation that's been going on was a complete sham. Just when I thought that these savages couldn't get any worse. It shows that Muslim, Jew, Christian, atheist, we must all join together to fight against these maniacs.

OP posts:
Sleetsleetmoresleet · 04/02/2015 09:46

"My feeling is that the main objective of those who join what is essentially a minority special interest 'gang' is egoism. They derive pleasure and self esteem from demonstrating to their peers (and a horrified world) that they are bloodthirsty and merciless. It's an extreme sport in which everything else., the religion, the outfits, the videos etc are just window dressing."

Excellent post, ergo!

CaffeLatteIceCream · 04/02/2015 09:56

You people are doing the world no favours whatsoever by claiming that this is nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with it. Their justification comes straight out of the pages of the Koran.

These cunts don't represent all Muslims, but they do represent Islam...and they represent it better than decent, "moderate" Muslims do.

This ignorant and misguided pretence at "respect" shown by people like you lot is what's causing this surge in Islamism.

PC tosser...."Respect Islam. Their culture is different to ours. Religion is about love"

Muslim nutcase: "Yeah, respect us. You haven't respected us enough....BANG"

And stop with the bullshit about Muslims being victims. YES, OF COURSE. It is nearly always Muslims who are the victims...because these medieval, pig ignorant cretins have a very narrow view, supported by black and white doctrines within the "holy" book, of who a real Muslim actually is.

Stop "respecting" Islam. It does not respect you back. Respect individual people who have earned it...this barbaric totalitarian ideology has not.

Oh, and a little nugget for you...more British Muslim young men are joining ISIS than are joining the armed forces.

Tiny minority? No.

cleanmachine · 04/02/2015 09:56

Anyone who thinks this is just about religion is naive and slightly ignorant. They might be using certain philosophies to justify actions (and nothing could justify their actions) but this is all about power and ego and complex socio-political factors.

Isis are trying to provoke and destabilise Jordan and the whole region. One of their primary aims is to destabilise, create power vacuums and then invade.

Dr0pThePirate · 04/02/2015 10:16

CaffeLatte

Are you saying the only reason these people burt this man alive is because their Muslim? That they're murderous because they're Muslim?

What about Christians in Africa who burn gay people or "witches" to death. They're not Muslim - what's your excuse for them?

Solightly · 04/02/2015 10:50

Caffelatte,

Respect individual people who have earned it...

Well your ignorance is most certainly not going to earn you any respect. I have no respect for those who present stupid incoherent arguments to demonise someone's religion, whatever it may be.

yolofish · 04/02/2015 10:51

I truly dont think ISIS can be people in the normal sense of the word. How could anyone even think of doing such an awful thing? That poor poor man, and his poor family.

I am not surprised by Jordan's reaction in terms of hanging their convicted prisoners. Whether right or wrong, they at least had the 'luxury' of going to trial for their actions, unlike the pilot who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and my god how he suffered for it.

TroelsNextCampaignManager · 04/02/2015 11:12

I agree with cleanmachine's post above. This is about landgrab facilitated by stirring division and creating fear as much as actual physical force.

For those saying we should do more - like what? When western countries become involved ISIS use it as propaganda to say "look, the western infidels are killing your muslim brothers, come and join us to fight back!" When governments in the region call on western governments to help them, ISIS say "look at how your government is in league with those infidels who kill your muslim brothers - come and join us to remove them from power"

It's a lose, lose, lose. We can't do nothing, particularly if a government in the region asks for help. We do get involved, it drives up support for ISIS in countries in the region and in our own western countries.

So what can we do? Actually, so much of this is an information and propaganda war that I do think there should be clampdowns on the content that is available online. Because whether driven by religious belief, egotism, boredom or sheer bloody delusion an alarming number of people - even in our own country - are looking at videos of shocking acts of murder and brutality and thinking it's a good idea to get involved.

But we won't stop it all, so we need to have messages that will reach the same audiences. Their videos work because they are highly graphic. Graphic images and slogans are easy to understand whether you have a degree or whether you can barely read, so they reach the widest spread of people. In short, they are a good recruiting tool.

Arguably, we need to match their propaganda with graphic images and slogans that counter their arguments. It won't win the war, but it just might help.

Finally, FWIW, I think Bush and Blair are partly accountable for this (terror acts by militant islam predate their election, after all, so they can't be wholly to blame) and am baffled by the idea that their foreign policy advisers could not see the complete clusterfuck that would unfold. So either they were warned and they ignored it, or the policy wonks who didn't see the risk should hang their heads in shame at their own ineptitude.

LouiseBrooks · 04/02/2015 11:45

I believe this is a land grab but it's also about idealogy. One of the problems of course is that there are lots of different types of Muslims, just as there are different types of Christians (and only a few hundred years ago one lot of Christians went around killing the other lot, and vice versa).

Islam ranges from Sufi in the one extreme (gentle and fascinating), through Sunni and Shia (who hate each other) to the other extremes of Wahabi and Salafist. They all think they are the "true" Muslims but most of them don't go round murdering people.

There are also tribal issues which add to the mix and while I agree that Bush and Blair did not create the issue, they didn't help matters. Of course the west has been meddling in the Middle East for 100 years plus and in one way or another we are now reaping the results. The power vacuum point is so true by the way, as we have seen in both Iraq and Syria.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/02/2015 12:00

Aggressive men need very little justification to be aggressive. We've seen waves of murder & violence in the recent past predicated on diverse and often trivial reasons. The 'noble cause' cited as justification for aggression can be membership of a particular gang, a political aim, the support of a football team... and religion is basically just another excuse.

If we strip religion out of the current situation what we're left with is men with guns and knives, bullying and murdering anyone who disagrees that they should be in charge. If you put religion back into the equation, all it adds is a little righteous fervour and romance.

So we won't defeat people like this by focusing solely on their religion. If religion didn't exist they'd find another rationale to behave exactly the same way. We defeat them physically through good intelligence & anticipating their next move. We defeat them psychologically by not allowing their scare-mongering to change our values (whether they be Islamic or otherwise) or set us at each other's throats....

CarlaVeloso · 04/02/2015 12:17

What bothers me is how many are willing to join their ranks. I don't see them as religious zealots, just murderous psychopaths. These exist in all societies of course, serial killers, for example, and we are shocked by it because it is rare and abnormal. It is much more than thuggery and crime.

So how come so many are willing to join in over there? Are we really living among more closet psychopaths than we realised?

What on earth do people who go over there think they are achieving?

Also - is life pleasurable for them, when they're not killing people? Or is that the sole pleasure? What joy is there in that society? What on earth is the point?

cleanmachine · 04/02/2015 12:40

The only way to contain this and minimise or would be too stabilise the region and deter morons from joining this band of goons. Neither look possible right now.

Isis were created by the US to fight in Iraq. Now they've become a beast no one can control. The wars waged by the West in the middle east have wrecked the economies, infrastructure and political stability of the whole region. This would not have happened if saddam and gadaffi were alive. Detestable as they were.

The West waged an illegal war on iraq and that coupled with decades of meddling in the region just caused it to combust and grew the likes of isis. There is very little chance of the government's of that region stabilising their economies enough to put up a fight. And to compound the situation even more we have our ally Saudi who are possibly finding isis and the only real stable government on the region not wanting to stop isis. Add to that toxic mix the israel-Palestine i issue and civil war in syria......

stoopstoconker · 04/02/2015 13:32

Isis were created by the US?

That's inflammatory, what are your sources or are you extrapolating from the history that the CIA backed mujahaddin to undermine soviet power in Afghanistan?

babbas · 04/02/2015 15:44

The Us are involved on some level, be it the inception of isis or its target.. To deny that is ludicrous.

There have also been some rumblings about the US funding isis...

tribune.com.pk/story/828761/startling-revelations-is-operative-confesses-to-getting-funds-via-us/

LouiseBrooks · 04/02/2015 15:56

It's not just inflammatory, it's total bollocks. According to conspiracy theorists, the leader of ISIS, al Baghdadi, is really a Jewish actor-cum-Mossad agent named Simon Elliott hired by the CIA to play the part. This has been "proven" by showing a picture of Baghdadi in his earlier days sitting on a sofa with a woman. If it wasn't such an awful situation I'd laugh at the stupidity of it.

post edited by MNHQ to say that this link contains a very distressing image of a dead infant

aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/isis-run-by-simon-elliot-mossad-agent.html

(Info "attributed" to Edward Snowden but no one has produced the original source which means it's another ridiculous rumour, just like the one that they were responsible for 9/11 or that Mohammed Deif of Hamas is really Jewish.)

OP posts:
funnyossity · 04/02/2015 16:11

babbas and cleanmachine you have some interesting views, are they shared by many people you know in rl?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/02/2015 18:50

Oh dear, here we go - the "blame the USA" posters didn't take long to appear did they??

Personally I've always thought bunging someone in a cage and setting fire to them is an evil but personal choice, but hey, that's just me ...

ThatBloodyWoman · 04/02/2015 18:55

Its horrific,distressing,terrifying -I can't think of appropriate language.
I can't understand how anyone would watch the video.
This has angered me too,more than any other acts I think.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 04/02/2015 19:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meditrina · 04/02/2015 19:44

ISIS began as Al Qaeda in Iraq.

Now, back in the days when the USSR occupied Afghanistan, the U.S. funded the mujahidin, including UBL.

They seriously have not funded AQ or its successor organisations since they started attacking US targets.

And these days, even AQ think ISIS are too brutal to deal with. They tried, and failed, to gain mercy for the hostage Peter Kassig (who was doing humanitarian work for any who were in need and who had previously provided medical aid to people from Al Nusra).

OodlesofBoodles · 04/02/2015 20:22

Obama decided to empty Guantanamo, he's responsible for letting these psychopaths back into the world. Al Baghdadi and his merry men were never going to assimilate into polite society.

cleanmachine · 04/02/2015 20:25

Erm... baghdadi was never in guantanamo. And most of the detainees have been cleared of any wrongdoing oodles. Some of them have been released for clearance for a decade but not released.

30somethingm · 04/02/2015 20:39

There have been reports that ISIS are going to bring back the "khazouk"?

This is so terrible. Words cannot describe the barbarism.

OodlesofBoodles · 04/02/2015 20:50

You're right, he wasn't in Guantanamo but he was in US custody for a while.

I'm not going to look up Khazouk, i regret it every time i find out about a new punishment that appears to be permitted by a book written hundreds of years ago.

WetAugust · 04/02/2015 20:51

just watching BBC 4 program about Tyndall, the man who provided the translation of the Bible in English, allowing 'ordinary' people to read it for the first time.

you can see the power that the Church had in Britain if you take a country drive and see that just about every village has it's own church.

If you look back to Tudor times there are very real similarities with ISIS. Burning at the stake etc. Spanish Inquisition was bloody too.

Then Christianity went through Enlightenment.

We just need to wait for secretly hundred years for the Muslims to catch up.

meditrina · 04/02/2015 20:59

Kazoukh is disgusting, but isn't uniquely Islamic. It's the same as used by Vlad the Impaler. Crucifixion has also been mooted by ISIS. And if the reports of an online poll for means of execution of a hostage are accurate, well, words fail me.