Salmond calls for English referendum

[grimbletart]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30560368

Cheeky bugger, not content having failed to persuade the Scots to do what he says he is now trying to tell the English what to do.

A lot of politicians have inflated egos but he takes the biscuit.

Labour's Miliband says in regard to the SNP, there will be no (formal) coalition and/or their ministers in his Westminster government

Miliband is a typical man who never listens to a woman; Ms Stugeon told him that yonks ago.

But that hardly rules out parliamentary 'friends with benefits', as their parties have spend decades bitching about the Conservatives - I even heard the name 'Thatcher' today from an SNP dinosaur on the Daily Politics who has never had to run an economy, just spend what they are given.

A loose coalition was always on the cards, between two parties full of talk on how to run a successful business creation/tax/spend economy, when one has never done it and the other tried and failed abysmally.

P.S. I've just heard Mr Miliband accusing the Conservatives of "scaremongering" on the SNP issue - on the very day their largest donor, a businessman, spoke up against the uncertainties of a Labour/SNP alliance.

Mar 16 2015; "Labour's top donor: Tuition fees cut will hurt British universities and will not help 'working class'

"John Mills, Labour's biggest individual donor, says Ed Miliband's flagship education policy will leave universities 'less secure' and warns against doing a deal with the SNP"
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11474284/Labours-top-donor-Tuition-fees-cut-will-hurt-British-universities-and-will-not-help-working-class.html

"Mr Mills also became the first major donor to warn the Labour Party publicly that going in a pact with the SNP after could destabilise the Union and trigger uproar from the business community."

As with any couple, Mr Miliband waited until the subject turned to money and his income, before he listened to the missus. lol

I was going to join in this thread but isitmebut doesn't seem to know much about Scottish politics so not going to waste my breath.

I wouldn't bother FannyFifer. I've never seen such a barking mad monologue.

"barking mad" without an ounce of truth, right? Lol

Faneyfifer …. I would hold both hands up and say that I am by no means an expert on Scottish internal politics, but frankly when both main parties in Scotland still need to whip up a frenzy (and apparently succeed) by mentioning ‘Thatcher’ 25-years after the left office, I’d suggest they have nothing that positive to say on up there on their own BIG ECONOMIC PICTURE issues – especially when businesses (and your tax receipts) were looking to leave recently, for an independence reason.

Especially when I can’t remember the last socialist government in the UK that left us in a better shape when they left, than when they came it.

One other thing I DO KNOW; there is no UK wide Barnett Formula, where someone outside guarantees us a living, and a certain £££amount of money every year, to distribute between the nations within - and re the SNP, we are NOT just talking about them influencing Scotland.

”Nicola Sturgeon:UK 'needs an overhaul'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-31897835

"It's not just the building that needs to be overhauled. It's the institutions."

”Last month at University College London she attacked the "austerity economics" of the main Westminster parties and called for an extra £180m in public funding to be made available.”

”Responding to the speech, Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said it was "farcical" for the first minister to claim that the SNP would bring positive change for the whole UK.”

”He said: "It is farcical to suggest a party which is sworn to break up the UK would be capable of bringing positive change for the UK.”

As Mr Balls probably hasn't got the first clue what to tax first, this is a kind offer by Mr Salmond, but reading his views he is either equally as clueless or dishonest on tax rises to come.

As Scotland have already been told they can bank a big part of the Mansion Tax on England thanks to Labour, Mr Salmond is also blowing socialist economic smoke that there would be no further taxes on middle England, thanks to the 50p rate being reintroduced - when that 50p rate was seen to raise £££diddly squat and discourage investment etc.

"Alex Salmond: I will help write Ed Balls' first Budget"

"The former First Minister says he will threaten to sabotage the first Budget of a minority Labour government unless Mr Balls accepts SNP demands for billions of pounds more spending"
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11488369/Alex-Salmond-I-will-help-write-Ed-Balls-first-Budget.html

"Alex Salmond has claimed he will help write Ed Balls’ first Budget after the general election by threatening to sabotage it unless it includes billions of pounds of extra spending."

"In his most explicit statement yet on how he would intend to turn the screw on a minority Labour government, he said that if he did not get his way, he would table amendments to the Budget such as starting the high-speed rail line from Scotland instead of London."

"The former First Minister claimed he could force through the change with the support of northern MPs from other parties, giving Mr Balls little choice but to bend to SNP demands such as an extra £180 billion of borrowing."

"Speaking to the BBC’s Andrew Marr, he insisted this would not mean increasing taxes on middle England but he would support reintroducing the 50p top rate of income tax. He said the SNP, Plaid Cyrmu and the Greens would work together to force through “progressive” spending commitments."

"Progessive" Spending commitments (other than those already put in place) means government/taxpayer extra debt now, to be paid back 'manyana', by who, the Spannish, the French, or the English???
www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

"This is not 'jam' today, with a 2015-20 parliament ker-chinging up close to £2,000,000,000,000 (£2 trillion) of National Debt and being serviced at god knows what interest rate by then, it is socialist 'cake-and-eat-it' now, let someone else worry about it later."

Thatcher said something like socialism works fine until you run out of everyone elses money.

Listening to socialism with £1,500,000,000,000 of National Debt NOW, and where cutting a £90 billion annual deficit/overspend is called "austerity", was there ever a truer statement?

I think the English should have a referendum. They can also decide for themselves if they're happy staying within the UK. Why not?

Isitmebut seems to have this thread under control. My bad.

I'm very sorry Isitmebut but I can only liken your endless posts to projectile vomiting. As much as I don't want to watch someone projectile vomiting, nor do I have any desire to read your posts and I'm a Conservative voter.

You negate anything of interest you might have to say by not pausing for breath and giving others the opportunity to respond. After all isn't the point of a forum to exchange views with others, not just spew out endless text which I suspect no-one reads?

Hello silveroldie2 … if you are a Conservative voter, then I’m an SNP voter …. and with respect, if you haven’t thought of a reply since my last 22nd March post on here, maybe you have your Scottish hat on and can’t pick any holes in the facts I post. Just saying.

So how long would you like me to wait for your reply, as dodgy new political statements are made quite often, so better to keep it ‘current’, eh?

You see as a little Englander, I have another SNP problem, as while Mr Salmond brags that ‘I can work in coalitions’ pointing to his work within the Scottish Parliament, where he said he worked with the Lib Dems, Greens, the Conservatives and uncle Tom Cobbly INCLUDING the ‘oppose everything’ Labour Party - he and Ms Sturgeon have said that when the SNP hold the balance of power in Westminster, that they WOULD NOT work with a minority Conservative Party.

Bringing to London not the possibility of the SNP doing what is RIGHT for the UK as the Lib Dems did in 2010, he wants to bring to Westminster the pathetic Scottish political panto, similar to a Punch and Judy show, only there are TWO Punch puppets, so every election time Labour and the SNP brag that they have the biggest anti-Tory stick – often trying to make up the biggest Conservative NHS privatization porkie, and mentioning ‘Thatcher’ as many times as possible.

Ms Sturgeon laughingly wants us to believe that she and the SNP will keep the Westminster Parliamentary Labour Party ‘true’ and not “sell out on its values like the last labour government did”.
Ha ha ha.

She forgets Labour’s Mr Brown and his attack dog Mr Balls ran the UK economy, not Mr Blair.

So from 1997 until 2010 the UK had a Scotsman or two running the UK economic show; and it had a fat overly large and expensive government, it gave government jobs to ’the boys’ on big salaries, it was for open door immigration, it ran up too much annual/national debt, it kept saying it had to get welfare under control but didn’t, it raised numerous taxes including Home Stamp Duty, into the 2nd term Labour lost the trust of business/investment, but TALKS a lot about sustainable economic GDP growth – NOW TELL ME, HOW IS THE SNP DIFFERENT????

P.S. With new powers the SNP votes Ms Sturgeon _a larger salary than the Prime Minister- of this United Kingdom who isn’t just in charge of spending money as she is, he has to worry about a UK MAKING the money, a UK currency, a UK government bond/debt market, our membership of the EU and soooo many other things.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/18/scottish-parliament-votes-pay-rise-msps-nicola-sturgeon

And the fact the 1997 Labour party and new powers SNP both put up Home Stamp Tax to a fairly penal level as some of their first policies in power, kinda confirms to us Englanders you are both two socialist peas in the same pod – and there probably isn’t a fag paper of difference of ‘tax & government spend’ economic competence, between you – whether 1997 Labour, or 2015.

P.P.S. Apart from Trident, what do YOU see as a difference between the two in policies?

Ooh. Cut and paste is a fan invention.

May I suggest that you put your facts where your cake hole is, and post the links I've 'pasted', or look rather desperate. Waiting.

Oh and on the ‘current’ news and being on the SNP positive side, I believe Ms Sturgeon was NOT talking about Cameron with the ‘Ambassador’; its now alleged that she was talking about his piles, and balls, of Ferrero Rocher. Hmmm.

Find me that rib tickler elsewhere as well. lol

I am not an SNP supporter, nor do I have a Scottish hat. I am 100% English and have voted for the Tories for the last 51 years and my comments still stand.

silveroldie2 .... OK, shall we talk about the Thatcher 'unfair' property Poll Tax, as no one in Scotland appears to having marched against the Labour Council Tax rises in Scotland over 13-years by Labour, of 47% ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164724/Families-pay-720-council-tax-bills-rise-105-Labour-came-power.html

Could it be the canny Scottish politicians saw that Englands Council Tax went up an average of 105% over the same period - in the South East and East of England a whopping 124 -127% - no wonder Scotland has first NHS 'dibs' on current Labour's Mansion Tax proceeds, we apparently still need to apologize for Thatcher, 20-odd years later.

How about poor Wales, they saw their Council Tax go up 146% under Labour, and having Labour manage their NHS (so badly) - what a Labour 'double whammy' they've had.

Suffice to say silveroldie, I was in the 120 odd % range, so I am not looking forward to a 2015 to 2010 Labour - SNP 'luv in', as history shows it gets very expensive for us Englanders in the 'salf', as the Joey Essex would say.

To keep the art of conversation going, would you like to say which region are you from the Council Tax rise breakdown (listed in the link)?

Mr Miliband wants, nay "DEMANDS" that the SNP tell HIM how they will fill the £7.6 bil funding black hole in Scotland - yet wouldn't detail to England in 2010 how he would 'balance the books' with a £157 billion budget deficit OR an £80 odd billion one now - other than a few ideological cuts that at best raises peanuts, at worse (non dom), raises diddly squat.

That boy's got some front challenging ANYONE for figures, when unless a leader has the ways and means to OFFER growth/investment/jobs working WITH the private sector, NOTHING they offer the electorate is funded at present levels - never mind any "better" funding increases, or the "changes" we heard from Mr Clegg in 2010 - that once IN government and facing real world problems, they can't freeze (like a rabbit in headlights), pre May 2010.

With the SNP vote versus Labour in Scotland still trending up (at 52%), is Miliband in finally adopting UK fiscal responsibility religion to (totally balance the books) and therefore acknowledging that he has been wrong at every PMQT during 5-years having vigorously/noisily ‘questioning’ it – finally throwing in the tartan towel, expecting a near total Labour MP wipe out in Scotland, as to-date more spending cuts/less borrowing is NOT what he and Mr Murphy have been campaigning on?

1. I totally agreed with Margaret Thatcher's Poll Tax. She was one of our greatest PMs.

1. My county is Buckinghamshire - I trust you don't need my postcode?

1. I don't care what Scotland does and believe English MPs only should vote on English issues.

1. Gormless Ed wouldn't recognise UK fiscal responsibility if it slapped him round the face like a wet fish.

I offer my abject apologies for being tardy in responding to your posts - my computer has been misbehaving but I now have a shiny new laptop and hope to respond to further missives in a timely fashion

I love the SNP's promise today to help develop the north of England for us, hopefully not using Labour's 'growf' model of spraying unsustainable non front line government jobs up there.

But why not, under the Barnett Formula Scotland gets £10,100 per head, and poor old England gets £8,500 - so no wonder our north is 'struggling'.

This recycling English taxpayer wealth must be a Scottish 'thang', as Brown would take your salary via taxes, and give it back via tax credits etc.

How ironic then if the socialist Labour/SNP dream team in Westminster takes us back to the 'good old days' in the 1970's, when Labour needed to call out the IMF in 1976 to financial bail us out - as a no nonsense IMF (as Athens and Dublin found out) when ORDING you to cut spending will look at that Barnett disparity, )they’ll say if Scotland can afford to give money back, best reduce the ££ formula. lol

For England, a Scotland within a United Kingdom that democratically decides that they all want to become Moonies with little bells, or (having neutered every man) be led by Amazons, it really doesn’t matter to either country - as thanks to the Barnett Formula Scotland every person gets £10,100 per person from the UK ‘pot’ to pay the national bills,

So whether looking at;

• The decline in emphasis of the private sector e.g. manufacturing under 13-years of Labour.

• The potential warnings of medium/large businesses to rush for the Scotland/England border on an SNP Independent Scotland.

• The CURRENT warnings of English/Foreign businesses, therefore investment/jobs that to change course and go back to a big red tape regulated state, high taxes, MORE left wing Labour Party - would not be conducive to maintaining the current economic growth

It therefore matters not WHAT the exact Labour versus SNP numbers are, as if both together they can (with help from a few like minded friends) hold a left of centre anti business majority in the Westminster parliament - until we vote out Miliband’s objection to a ‘English only MP votes on English matters’ - and accept Mr Salmond’s advice to do so, the money in the WHOLE UK ‘POT’ paid for by the private sector, it at risk.

This General Election is about the future of the UK, and with such an obvious show of interfering nationalism elsewhere, England has to consider the dangers to its future prosperity, by voting for the main party who will not offer an ‘English MP votes for English matters’ - as Miliband is frightened of upsetting Scottish voters, he wants to get back by 2020.

Mr Miliband's reply, later on in the news, on a real concern for voters asks more questions than answers those concerns;

”Ed Miliband is actually accusing Cameron of north-south division based on ‘proposal’ and policy content of Ms Sturgeon’s statements, after Labour’s negative campaigning of some geographical ‘us and them’ class division for at least 35-years, is frankly pathetic.”

”Miliband’s suggestion that Cameron should take up the fight with Mr Sturgeon when both Labour and the SNP in Scotland can’t bring themselves to acknowledge any economic successes over the past 5-years (and instead focus on ‘bloody Thatcher’) is equally and predictably, lame,”

”So either ‘put up’ and offer England a guaranteed right to vote on our matters, as Scotland votes on theirs, or ‘shut up’ whinging when there is a REAL north vs south issue before us, rather than the politically made up ‘us versus them’ Labour/Miliband tries to exploit in EVERY speech.”

This accusation ‘The Conservatives are putting the Union in danger by warning of a Labour/Westminster government’, by from Ms Sturgeon, Messrs Darling, Brown and (Tory) Forsyth etc, is a huge whaaaaat? ….. as if brought down to the playground argument level, ‘they started it, miss’.

Seriously, with a continual Scottish Nationalist ‘salvo’ of political rockets aimed at the Conservatives in Westminster at a rate the operatives in the Gaza Strip would be proud of delivering, does ANYONE expect Cameron to take such Tory targeted ‘incoming’ and not return fire?

So the evidence shows that the across border attacks began (and continue) from Scotland and not all of Scotland; confirming what we KNOW, this is not England versus Scotland, it is the Nationalists agenda versus England.

Ms Sturgeon, with very similar ideological policies (apart from Trident and Independence) with Labour, is telling us that England is ready for “real change” and the SNP working with Labour (only), with a parliamentary majority, will deliver that ‘change’ – with admissions from her Westminster Mr Salmond rep in waiting, he’ll write the first UK 2015 budget.

The problem for England is nearly every problem in England is rooted in Labour’s policies given 13-years to work and failed miserably and THE CHANGE, unlike everywhere else in Europe crying out for the economic and financial ‘change’ from stagnation - has began to happen here for the past 5-years but socialism refuses to accept it, and talks it down at every opportunity.

The change England clearly needs is all main Westminster political parties to insulate England from the reverse takeover’ and at least guarantee ‘English MP votes, for English only matters’.

Clearly looking below at what I believe is Mr Miliband’s manifesto policy attempt to be a ‘hell, I’m tough enough’ leader, but to me looks like a new and expensive government quango, covered in Scottish fudge.
? Establish a "people-led constitutional convention" to look at governance across the UK

Ms Sturgeon while questioning a Labour/SNP Westminster as some totally unfathomable fear, has recently said something like ‘you wanted us to STAY in the UK, this is democracy, baby’ or something like that.

Cameron has recently been called a dumb-nuts for the Conservatives supporting the SNP policies in Holyrood, when political common sense was needed to put through legislation - as Labour in Scotland did what it does best, politicking and OPPOSING everything - no matter the merits of that policy.

Yet democratically Ms Sturgeon STILL refuses to accept the concept of the largest party in Westminster forming a UK government on ideological grounds, if that political party is a Conservative Party, thereby OPPOSING the democratic will of the rest of the UK.

April 23 2015; ”Nicola Sturgeon says the SNP would prop up a Labour government even if the Tories had a 40-seat lead”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/nicola-sturgeon-says-the-snp-would-prop-up-a-labour-government-even-if-the-tories-had-a-40seat-lead-10200407.html

”The Scottish nationalist leader told BBC Newsnight that the Tories would need to secure a majority elsewhere in order to govern again and that she would not support David Cameron to become prime minister.”

“Even if the Tories are the largest party, if there is an anti-Tory majority, my offer to Labour is to work together to keep the Tories out," the first minister told the programme.”

Isitmebut her position is neither democratic or 'fair', and magnifies the nanny 'State knows best' we thought we moved on from 5-years ago, when the country could no longer afford that particular experiment any longer.

But that would account for all the (unspecified projects) extra borrowing past 2020.