Salmond calls for English referendum

[grimbletart]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30560368

Cheeky bugger, not content having failed to persuade the Scots to do what he says he is now trying to tell the English what to do.

A lot of politicians have inflated egos but he takes the biscuit.

Yes I was puzzled by this. Thing is I agree with a lot of what he said, and I definitely agree with the principle of devolution and decentralising government. But from him... what gives?

maybe I'm wrong then

perhaps he is hoping that the English will be so irritated with him that they will vote for independence from Scotland.

I am in favour of the English people having a referdum on a solution to the west loathian question. My preference would be for all English mps to also be members of an English parliment that meets in the House of Commons on different days to the main House of Commons.

I am in favour of getting rid of the House of Lords. I am not sure what should replace it. I don't mind outstanding people being given a peerage. We have essentially got rid of heritary peers already. I feel it would be better if the peerage was for 5 years with the possibility of renewal. May be PR could be used to decide how many labour/ Tory / lib dem peers there are.

no prime minister wants an elected second chamber.

She always wants the luxury of being able to say "I represent the elected government, those other people are not elected. so pay no attention to them, I'm the rightful boss."

That's why the dreadful Thatcher woman couldn't bear having an elected Greater London Council. Being elected by the people of London gave it legitimacy in the exercise of its powers.

The House of Lords main function is to watch over the lower house/Commons, and provide checks and balance to government legislation on a mainly non partisan basis – using their old fart expertise within, to scrutinise legislation and amend the proposed laws from the elected numpties submitting it.

Salmond wanting to rid Westminster of Lords just as he is expected to lead the 3rd largest party in Westminster is a given, he is a control freak socialist, not a free anything - and I think you’ll find that there are far more recent examples of abuse of Westminster power to both MAKE laws and place in the Lords political sympathisers ahead of reforms.

Every party relies on patronage, Lords nominations etc, but let us see the results of a socialist 1997 majority of 179 Westminster seats (which fell to over 60 seats by 2005 ) produced; what power, where around 4,300 new laws were passed in 13-years, which if memory serves, was more than for the combined governments for the 20th century.

Aug 2006; Blair's 'frenzied law making': a new offence for every day spent in office

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blairs-frenzied-law-making--a-new-offence-for-every-day-spent-in-office-412072.html

“Tony Blair's government has created more than 3,000 new criminal offences during its nine-year tenure, one for almost every day it has been in power.”

”The astonishing tally brought accusations last night of a "frenzied approach to law-making" that contrasts with falling detection rates and climbing levels of violent crime.”

”The 3,000-plus offences have been driven on to the statute book by an administration that has faced repeated charges of meddling in the everyday lives of citizens, from restricting freedom of speech to planning to issue identity cards to all adults.”

Who's who: Cash for honours row
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4828286.stm
The cash-for-peerages investigation lasted 16 months and saw police interview 136 people. Here is a guide to the main players involved:

So as my old grandpappy used to say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, especially if the fix, is ‘a fix’, whether laughing labelled ‘the people’s’ anything.

Sure some reforms are needs e.g. the amounts of them, but screw ‘some people’s’ class hang ups, history shows any alternative is bound to be partisan, possibly lop-sided, with few checks on the next law-a-day dictator, or grand coalition of them. lol

The NEED for England to take up Mr Salmond’s kind advice to have English MP’s only, to make English laws, has become a far more URGENT matter – and should be right there up at the top in May 2015, as a major ENGLISH concern.

Why, because as I suspected, the Westminster parliamentary Labour Party will be in a English-money-give-away- hissing-contest, with the SNP to not only limit the electoral losses in the 2015 General Election – but also to WIN BACK ALL SEATS LOST to the SNP, at the 2020 General Election.

”Labour 'will use Mansion Tax in London to fund 1,000 Scottish nurses'
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-will-use-mansion-tax-in-london-to-fund-1000-scottish-nurses-9960202.html

I thought extra raids on soft southerner wealth, was a thing of the past, as thanks to the UK’s Barnett Formula, Scotland with far more taxpayers money can brag about no prescription fees or university fees etc – so if Labour can keep a straight face putting extra taxation on English assets for electoral gain, rather than tell Scotland to reallocate their England taxpayer fund advantage, WHERE DOES IT STOP????

”The Barnett Formula Explained”
news.sky.com/story/1336911/the-barnett-formula-explained
”The formula, strictly speaking the Barnett settlement, allocates state spending between the nations of the United Kingdom. The end result is wide disparities between the per-person spending of up to £2,000 a year in those nations.”

England gets £8,500 Per Head

Scotland gets £10,100 Per ‘ead.

As it stands, due to unequal boundaries, Labour needs far less votes for either a 2015 Westminster majority or to become the largest party in Westminster, e.g. in 2005 35% of the overall vote gave Labour a 66 seat MAJORITY, while in 2010 36% of the overall general election vote left the Conservatives with a 20 seat MINORITY government.

So with a 2015 Labour government, currently with NO INTEREST to eliminate their Labour Scottish Westminster seat advantage, especially a 2015 minority one where the SNP is the 2nd largest opposition party, dictating with like minds, their ‘tax and spend’ policies – without any main parties firm ‘English votes for English Laws manifesto promise, ENGLISH TAXPAYERS will pay dearly for having an SNP dog, wag the English taxes tail.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11307543/SNP-on-course-to-hold-balance-of-power-in-Westminster-according-to-new-poll-showing-depth-of-Labours-collapse.html

When Labour knocks on 4 million of your English doors, ask them when it will be YOUR turn to fund their Scottish electoral ambitions, on TOP of their trend to raise your Council Taxes.

The SNP First Minister has confirmed that the SNP in a expected 2015 Westminster hung parliament will vote on NHS matters if they feel they will affect Scotland.

“SNP prepared to vote on NHS issues in England to protect the service in Scotland in the event of a hung parliament”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-prepared-to-vote-on-nhs-issues-in-england-to-protect-the-service-in-scotland-in-the-event-of-a-hung-parliament-9992989.html

One has to ask ours English selves, how many other new Labour taxes from a 2015 Labour administration will both need and get SNP support, under the pretence of supporting Scottish interests?

One of the first new 2015 Labour taxes will be on property ownership TO HELP FUND THE SCOTTISH HEALTH SERVICE, just as one of the first SNP taxes after the independence vote, was a 10% penal tax on mainly family homes, costing £250 k to £1 million.
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/stamp-duty-revamp-blow-to-snp-property-tax-reforms-1-3623960

The problem with socialist raids of today on the so called English rich ‘with broad shoulders’, is that they ‘creep’ and become taxes for the masses, who’s shoulders increasing end up bearing the costs of expensive and inefficient government, at both the central and local level, as their administrations then reliant on increased taxation, either forget to, or are unable, to cut taxes when they need to.

Remember 1997 when Labour came to power and the Stamp Tax was a flat 1%, then rose to 3 to 5% for most families?
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/houseprices/11004647/Stamp-duty-millions-more-being-dragged-into-trap.html

Labour, the SNP, and even the Lib Dems call cutting honking great government deficits, with the objecting of balancing our budget ‘austerity’, but knowing they have to get one of those fiscally responsible ‘round to-its’, ideologically it can only come from a broad range of new taxes previously implemented by a Labour government, or raised for discussion e.g Death Taxes to support the NHS – misguided in thinking that they are raising living standards to the masses, by taxing our economy to an EU slump with UK job losses.

All three parties will be too focused on Scottish Westminster seats in 2020 to be good for English interests and this must not be allowed to happen;the English need devolved English MP Votes, for English matters, just as the Scottish MPs in Holyrood decide theirs.

P.S. So it is clear, that a SNP running the Scottish health service, will be as critical of any Conservative administration running the English NHS, as the Labour Party running the Welsh health service - which based on their own records in Scotland (& Wales) during THIS parliament, shows they really have little to shout about e.g. at a PMQT.

BBC Nick Robertson;
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30920114
“I asked the First Minister about figures that suggest spending on the English NHS has gone up faster than the Scottish NHS in recent years.”

”Between 2009-10 and 2015-16 NHS Scotland cut spending by around 1% whereas the Westminster government has increased spending on the English NHS by around 4%.”

Labour bribes to get back the Scottish Westminster seats they are about to lose, is starting early - only another 5-years of it to go.

“Gordon Brown: Higher Scottish benefits are 'Vow Plus'.”

“The former Prime Minister admits the Labour plan to allow Scotland to set higher benefits is only affordable thanks to the UK taxpayer as SNP says it is a panic move.”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11385355/Gordon-Brown-Higher-Scottish-benefits-are-Vow-Plus.html

“Gordon Brown has said Labour’s general election pledge to allow Scots higher state pensions and benefits was the “Vow Plus” as he admitted it was only affordable thanks to the UK taxpayer.”

“The former Prime Minister said the policy built on the “pooling and sharing” of resources across the UK to fund existing OAP benefits, with Scottish pensioners already getting £500 million more per year than a population share would allocate.”

“Ruth Davidson, Scottish Tory leader, said: “Gordon Brown is yanking the Labour Party back to the bad old days of high tax, high spending and high borrowing that crashed the economy in the first place.”

How ironic that the Scot NOW OFFERING Scotland better pensions, screwed England's pensioners, estimated to have taken around £250 billion of performance from Private and Private Final Salary schemes, many CLOSING because of this raid.

“The man who stole your old age: How Gordon Brown secretly imposed a ruinous tax that has wrecked the retirements of millions”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266662/The-man-stole-old-age-How-Gordon-Brown-secretly-imposed-ruinous-tax-wrecked-retirements-millions.html

What would an independent Scotland have done to collect their own taxes?

No wonder the SNP wants to pillage the soft south via Westminster.

In England we needed electoral reform needing individuals to personally register rather than be so automatically, due to proven/prosecuted dodgy socialist vote rigging scandals, just a thought. lol

HMRC: Finding Scottish taxpayers 'more complex than predicted'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-31194496

”The tax collection agency HMRC has said work to identify Scottish taxpayers is proving "more complex" than anticipated.”

”It wants access to NHS records to help identify those eligible to pay the new Scottish rate of income tax (SRIT).”

”HMRC has also floated the idea of using the electoral register.”

”In a statement to the BBC, the agency said: "The Scottish electoral register could provide a potential list of people who live in Scotland but do not have a Scottish address on our system."

”Voter registration is particularly high at the moment following the independence referendum.”

”But when local authorities suggested using this data to help chase poll tax arrears, the Scottish government strongly objected.”

When in Scotland, what IS the real difference between the SNP and Labour Party???

I ask this as in which century did Scottish politicians, for so long used to getting more money per head from Westminster via the Barnett Formula than England, last totally run their own economy, where their debt, tax and spend policies resulted in a balanced, sustainable economy?

In which decade did a Labour Party leave the UK economy and number of jobs in a better shape than when they came to power?

Yet the only thing that seems to unite them is seeing who can better rubbish the record of the Conservative government, whose administrations who twice in the past 35-years (with a 100% record) have come to power and FIXED the failed socialist policies labelled as “progressive”, and BOTH times not only left the economy far better than they found it, they left it the fastest growing economy in Europe.

“Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland's First Minister seizes chance to play kingmaker at general election”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/nicola-sturgeon-scotlands-first-minister-seizes-chance-to-play-the-kingmaker-at-general-election-10042963.html

“The SNP should be less confrontational and co-operate with political rivals – and the English, Scotland’s First Minister has said. Nicola Sturgeon wants to build a “progressive alliance” capable of propelling Ed Miliband into 10 Downing Street after May’s UK general election, she told i in an exclusive interview.”

Yet according to Ms Sturgeon, over 54 million people in England, should give a huge sigh of relief that the SNP representing over 5 million people in Scotland, who have NEVER RUN A NATIONAL ECONOMY - never mind one that had the largest annual budget deficit in Europe - is going to use their expertise and votes to ‘prop up’ the Westminster party that with huge parliamentary majorities over 13-years, still managed to totally cock up what THEY inherited?

In other words, with a Labour, SNP, Lib Dem and Plaid C. hung parliament - the party that fixes the mess, won't be able to do so in the future.

God help us.

Did you actually just have a ten post debate on your own?

Scots how I wish for a like button for your last post...

Way to kill a thread!

He is out to divide and conquer. As in divide the UK so his party can try to conquer Scotland again.
Hope he fails again.

P.s. isitme that must have taken you ages. Do you work in politics?

So, let's have a referendum that will cost billions to fund at a time of chronic austerity which asks a question WHICH WE ALL KNOW THE FUCKING ANSWER TO.

You lost Alex Salmon. Now shut the fuck up about devolution.

*Salmond

Oops. Autocorrect. Alex Salmon AND his mate Alex SalmonD can both fuck off

Behooven .... why do I have to work in politics to understand that Labour's (therefore the SNPs) policies will fail this country every time, when all I need is a (near) 60-years old memory?

A Scotland that has only spent what was given to them, never having to worry about the economic big picture, with 5 million people, should not be trying to load shed loads of national debt on the other 59 million - including me and mine. IMO

It's alright joni I'm being facetious!

I see we have enlarged the SNP debate, which is good, although similar in factual content to that Scottish Nationalist Tommy whats-his-face appearing on TV pre referendum and bellowing (because of $110 a barrel oil) ‘we are one of the richest nations on earth’.

Yet the last I heard from the SNP oil minister is that Osborne has to use the fastest growing UK economy in the 2014 western world, to HELP the Scottish oil industry and protect their jobs from a $50 a barrel price, showing how quickly ‘stuff’ happens within a small economy.

Personally I don’t overly care if over nearly 2-months I have five statements unanswered, it happens, especially if those on the receiving end want me and my opinions to go away – frankly its always a good sign I’m getting somewhere in peeling back the political bullshit we are meant to swallow.

Scotland’s finances under a SNP government, similar to those under a Labour government, NEED unpeeling, as the rest of those NOT voting for them will be affected for many years to come.

Take the SNP and their current mission in a 2015 Westminster Parliament to ensure English children are debt slaves to the SNP’s short to long term political aspirations, I was warning pre Scottish Referendum WHY AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND COULD NOT KEEP OUR INTEREST RATES AND POUND as their tax & spend policies channelling future growf expectations through increased government spending, would drag the rest of us down on the Road to Greece.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2180124-Scotland-can-NOT-keep-the-Pound-does-Scotland-England-France

Based on the SNP/Sturgeon here and now, it turns out I was a ‘kin guru worth listening to then, now and later, on any future English Pound Sterling referendum terms - and their portion of UK debt they previously threatened to renege on, they want increased NOW to look good, to try force another referendum. Marvellous.

English MP votes on English matters. Please.

When it looked like Scotland would be independent, many medium to large businesses indicated they would break for the border and leave Scotland.

In England now home building and other business decisions having been slowing down through political fears AFTER the general election, which isn't because they think the Conservatives might regain power.

Lord Bilimoria: Labour-SNP coalition would be 'disaster' for UK

The founder of Cobra Beer says the prospect of Ed Miliband and Alex Salmond joining forces after the election is “terrifying” for business and national security
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11456516/Lord-Bilimoria-Labour-SNP-coalition-would-be-disaster-for-UK.html

"Ed Miliband would be a “disaster” for the British economy if Labour won power with the help of the Scottish National Party, one of Britain’s leading entrepreneurs has warned."

"The prospect of a Labour-SNP coalition after the general election in two months’ time is “terrifying”, Lord Bilimoria, the chairman and founder of Cobra Beer, said."

"In an interview with The Telegraph, the independent cross-bench peer said he was “very worried” that Labour would wreck the economic recovery by putting up taxes, as he criticised Mr Miliband’s personal lack of experience and understanding of business."

“They [the SNP] are also a high public spending party,” he said. The rest of Britain “has to subsidise Scotland” through the Barnet Formula because the SNP is not interested in running a “balanced book economy”.

“If you combine that with Labour also wanting to spend more and put up taxes, and therefore jeopardise wealth creation and job creation, then it is a recipe for disaster."

And that was from a supporter/advisor from the last Labour administration under Blair/Brown.

The prospects of a Labour government in 2015 is already scaring businesses, so business investment and job creation is at risk, without which economic growth WILL slow, as our budget deficit gets larger - so Ed Miliband NEEDS to confirm that Labour will not form an economic alliance with the SNP after 2015, now.