Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users

[DuelingFanjo]

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First Bus wins wheelchair court judgement - Bus companies are not required by law to force parents with buggies to make way for wheelchair users in designated bays on vehicles, senior judges ruled.

Might be a controversial opinion but I am glad.

So Chaz, as has been said hundreds of times before, why don't people campaign to get additional spaces which are priority buggy spaces? Nothing's stopping you from starting a campaign. The point here is that these are wheelchair spaces and a buggy user has no more right to occupy them than the teenager leaning against the wall because he's too cool to sit down

Yes let's ignore the London buses employee and those of us that catch the bus daily who say you can't fold buggy's.

In fact, I think your right, what would be a great idea is to have an aisle full of women holding a buggy, baby and bags. No one would notice that

According to this TFL expect you to fold your buggy to make way for wheelchair users!

Err pot kettle black WUME.

Am cringing for you here.

You've just let your true colours shine right through there WUME!

And maybe explain what I think I am entitled to!

some people are in wheelchairs for broken ankles, bein overweight etc these people are just as able to wait for the next bus

oh here we go.. now it's "some wheelchair users are less worthy anyway"...

FFS just ridiculous. Do they have to bring a bloody GP note to prove their medical condition and justify why they're in a wheelchair now?

Well according to you, your need is greater so the pushchairs should move. If they don't you call them entitled.

When asked if you would move if someone else'a need was greater you refused to answer. Surely that makes you entitled by your own standards?

And how the blazes are levels of needs of wheelchair users supposed to be assessed? Is there a checklist? Are they supposed to compare notes? Don't be ridiculous.

No it doesn't at all.

If I am in my wheelchair using the wheelchair space on a bus and another wheelchair user comes along it is unfortunate. If I was with DH, I would get out and fold it if there was room for me to sit. I have done this on a day out in London.

If a person is using the wheelchair space for their pushchair and a wheelchair users comes along and the person with the pushchair refuses to fold or move, they are entitled because the space isn't for them, it is a wheelchair space.

Perhaps we're all going to have to have our medical condtions and needs tattooed on us Alice!

I think that anyone who can fold their buggy should. What concerns me are the assumptions that anyone who doesn't is automatically selfish. Similarly, a blanket requirement that all buggies should be folded probably unreasonable.

Completely agree chaz

Though I agree buggy users should fold/make room for wheelchair users I think some of the things being said about buggy users is wrong and actually quite insulting in some cases amend I agree with some of what WUME has said about the bus companies responsibilities.

As it was I didn't have a choice in buggy - I was given two buggy's when I had ds both chassis and carrycot/carseat/pushchair seat types so if I fold I have two large pieces to stow which probably wouldn't fit in the luggage rack of my local buses. I would happily fold if I needed to and had help but in the early days I struggled to fold the buggy to get it in the car and used to get really flustered about it which used to put me off going out as it was never mind being faced with a situation where I had to ask strangers to help me/hold my baby and probably be told to fuck off or get off the bus in the middle of somewhere and probably be told that no I can't have a transfer ticket as I chose to get off (Bristol is a beautiful city but can be not very nice ) Thankfully these things never happened to me but they have happened to a friend because if they had happened to me on top of everything else that did happen around the time I had my baby it may well have tipped me over the edge. But you wouldn't have known that just by looking at me.

So how about we all show each other some compassion instead of arguing over who's worse off.

I understand a buggy user could be inconvenienced. Majorly so. They could have hurt their shoulder, have a baby in said buggy who has pooed through their clothes and be late for their child's Christmas performance etc.

They will be miserable and stressed and may even report it as one of their worst days ever.

They should STILL get out of the way for a wheelchair user. Their mini crisis will end and they'll get over it. So will their kids. They are no more entitled to that space than to speed on the hard shoulder on their phone for similarly rated disasters.

The wheelchair users need to be able to rely on that space and their entitlement to it. If the buggy user has incidents like above as a frequent occurance he/she will have to find a TEMPORARY alternative means of transportation or even TEMPORARILY forego it at all.

This is not and cannot be a solution for a wheelchair user, and also MUST not. It is permenant or at least extremely long-term and not being able to rely on it affects their life-chances in a way that it does not to a buggy user.

what needs to happen is on side strictly for wheelchairs and the other for buggies, many mothers work perhaps dont drive/need to get kids to school and heaving buses witg people being battered about is not a safe place to hold a baby with one arm or something, the buses need redesigning badly and they need to get rid of that bastard pole in the chair bay!!

tons of pushchair users compared to fewer wheelchair users. If each of those pushchair users on the bus each have a day where they're struggling and refuse to fold, for them it's just one day. But for the wheelchair users, that's that many more people clogging up the spot they need on the bus. Your ONE TIME that you don't fold is just a part of the whole picture.

You don't fold, another doesn't fold, another doesn't move. You think "oh this one time, it's not that big a deal." But it's NOT one time. It's just one of many - as it's just one of many pushchair users.

I just do not understand why people cannot get their head around this. Sorry, but I just don't get the "I can't fold the pushchair, I struggle with it, I can't hold my baby and fold it, I can't ask people for help, I can't... I can't..."

FFS people! Practice folding the pushchair at home (I did, even holding the baby - looked silly, but boy, did it help). Ask for help. Use a sling. But stop acting like your legs and arms are going to fall off if you have to fold your pushchair and hold your baby. (although hey, bonus - if they do, you can get a wheelchair and then actually use the spot PROPERLY!)

DH and I were laughing the other day because we were watching a couple who live near us practicing folding the pram to put in the car and putting the car seat in. She hasn't had the baby yet. We could see them getting hot and flustered and going red in the face, and were laughing about when we did it.

Do people not do this, then? Do they not practice with the pram?

I am amazed at this decision. I don't think it is right. It is very unfair.

Well unfortunately fairy that place is no longer for wheelchairs.

Because of today's ruling, that place is for whoever gets there first.

Unless they reintroduce the buggy storage facility which they took out to put in the wheelchair space and then I bet money more people would fold.

It's a simple solution.

But arguing and screaming on MN is so much more fun than actual RL problem solving.

No it's not, it's still a wheelchair space. The ruling today said that the bus company can't force someone with a pushchair to move!

Well unfortunately fairy that place is no longer for wheelchairs.
Because of today's ruling, that place is for whoever gets there first.

That's right. The wheelchair space is now the end goal for not only wheelchair users who need it.... and inconsiderate entitled arses.

I wonder if some people's tunes would change if they suddenly found themselves or their child in a wheelchair. I suspect so.

Is this a real issue?

Today's ruling is that wheelchair species are for wheelchair users but that bus drivers aren't expected to police entitled arses who abuse them.

if you depend on a wheelchair, yes.

claig the judges decided that a bus company was not liable to pay £5,000 in damages to a wheelchair user when one of their customers refused to move and allow him on the bus. They were not prepared to blame bus companies or drivers provided the bus companies had been compliant with the Disabilities Act. I can't argue with that. Parliament can make it law that drivers have to manhandle bolshy passengers or to wait for the police to sort these shitty situations out. Judges apply the law, not make it.

OMG WUME. I can't believe you just typed that.

Wow. Just. Wow.