Immigration figures

[Qwertyipad]

The figures are going up by 40%. Am I the only one that wants a points system like Australia so we can protect low paid workers and fill are skill shortages.

xpost with Coyoacan. Agree with what you said, it is about community and responsibility. No man is an island and no employer is an island.

(Hit "send" to soon) - I live 35 miles away from my office - does that mean I steal a job from a local? Plus, whilst I've got British citizenship, I'm an immigrant, so am I doubly a job thief?

As an immigrant myself, albeit in another country, I could hardly be against immigrants, Widow.

So the right to stay where you grew up should trump the right to go and seek out better prospects than your own community offers, or to go and follow your heart, for example if you fall in love with someone who lives or some place that is far away from where you grew up? I don't agree with that.

'So the right to stay where you grew up should trump the right to go and seek out better prospects than your own community offers'

You can't just decide to go and live and work in the United States. You need a green card or work permit of some kind to be allowed to do so.

Being part of a community gives you rights. If you are a United States citizen, you are entitled to certain rights. A British citizen will not have the same rights in the United States unless the United States chooses to grant those rights.

claig which is why US citizens can't settle here freely without a visa either.

However British citizens currently can go and exercise their treaty rights anywhere in the UK. It's reciprocal and the thought that these rights could be removed is abhorrent to me as someone who came here on the basis of these rights and who would never have been able to have my family if the post 2012 immigration rules had applied to me when I first came (out of love) and found a low skill low pay job in a low skill low pay community, and over the years worked my way up, earned qualifications and now earn above average ( although not higher threshold yet). And I'm part of the community now.

I don't think I've taken anything from anyone and wouldn't begrudge anyone who wants to do the same the opportunity to do so.

'However British citizens currently can go and exercise their treaty rights anywhere in the UK'

Yes, because they are British citizens and can go anywhere in Britain. There are no treaty rights within Britain for British citizens.

What is coming to the fore now with UKIP is the question does the European Community have precedence over nation state communities and the answer is yes. If the UK ever leaves the EU, then it will change the situation for future open door immigration from EU countries.

We are in a stage of extreme capitalism, and it is not the fault of the immigrants.

When there is absolutely no limit on who employers can hire, in a third-world country they will tend to give all the top posts to people from the company's home country (usually Europe or the United States) or, in the case of a country like the UK, bring in cheap labour from other countries to push down wages.

'We are in a stage of extreme capitalism'

Exactly and that is of course what the EU is all about, although dressed up with workers' rights legisaltion to fool the socialists, many of whom are just a metropolitan Oxbridge elite totally divorced from working people and their concerns.

The EU is for the interests of global capital who want free movement of labour. The European Community laws hold sway over the entire Union of nation states that form the Union. That way the global elite, the powerful oligarchy, can make laws for 450 million people which override the objections of nation state communities or local communities because unanimity is required for treaty change.

The global elite want a weakening of the ties of community and rights to people in those communities and a weakening of nation states in order to override any objections from nations or local communities to a globalised market and world. Many politicians in nation states are functionaries who are lobbied by global business.

What we are seeing in Europe at the moment, as shown in the recent EU elections, is the rise of populist parties who oppose the weakening of rights of nation state communities and the rights of people, and the strengthening of centralised EU control which is unaccountable to the people and serves the interests of global business.

That is why global business, the media and the metropolitan elites are throwing the kitchen sink at any party who opposes the global business elite's attempt to centralize control at the EU level.

The immigration debate has highlighted the real divide between the people and the metropolitan elite who have been placed in charge in order to manage the people. This is the new political struggle all over Europe. A globalised, metropolitan elite serving business versus ordinary people.

This is from Left Foot Forward and shows that the struggle is between community and ties to community of ordinary people and the internationalisation, individualism and gloablisation of the metropolitan elite millionaires, often from Oxbridge, who serve global business rather than communities and the people.

"UKIP was picking up so-called ‘left behind’ voters – that is, working class voters who felt like they and their families were getting a raw deal from globalisation, be it economic or cultural.

The left has some ground it can work with here – part of the fear of globalisation is around job security and wages – comfortable ground for social democrats such as Ed Miliband. The bigger issue is connecting with voters who dislike the other side of globalisation, namely immigration.

However much the left continues to extol the virtues of the working class, there is a growing divide between the views of the largely liberal and metropolitan make-up of the Labour hierarchy and the so-called Labour ‘core vote’.

Here it is worth noting the work of David Goodhart, much disparaged by the left but probably onto something. The liberal left, he says, is today dominated by people whose worldview is “universalistic, suspicious of most kinds of group or national attachment, and individualistic…they don’t “get” what most other people also get – loyalty, authority and the sacred’.

This is in contrast to working class voters, who value family, patriotism and social and economic stability."

leftfootforward.org/2014/10/labour-has-a-working-class-problem/

And what is fascinating is that spinners in safe seats are being toppled by a party of "fruitcakes" who are backed by millions of ordinary people, and all the media and all the Oxbridge, Davos, College of Europe millionaires, barristers, PPEs and assorted clever clogs have no answer because the people know the game.

Claig - they also can go anywhere in the EU. Sorry about the typo. Not that you care.

'they also can go anywhere in the EU'

Of course they can, but most don't want to because they have roots in their community and have family ties and language ties and bonds that make them want to stay where they were born and where their families come from. They value community above Davos and money and they expect politicians to represent their interests and to provide employment and job prospects so that they can continue to live where they always have lived. They are fed up of Davos puppets, often from Oxbridge, who are elevated by the global business elite into positions of power where their role is to manage and fool ordinary people for the interests of global business.

"The liberal left, he says, is today dominated by people whose worldview is “universalistic, suspicious of most kinds of group or national attachment, and individualistic…they don’t “get” what most other people also get – loyalty, authority and the sacred’.

This is in contrast to working class voters, who value family, patriotism and social and economic stability."

The Davos puppets are in trouble, the people have rumbled them, and their last refuge is to throw insults and smears, backed by their media mogul mates, at any party who says the game is up.

"The liberal left, he says, is today dominated by people whose worldview is “universalistic, suspicious of most kinds of group or national attachment, and individualistic"

It is about community and attachment, things that ordinary people hold dear.

Global business and their puppet class of political servants. often elevated by them from Oxbridge, want to break that attachment in order to break down any barriers to a globalised marketplace.

Number of British migrants in EU is pretty much equal to EU migrants in UK. euobserver.com/social/123066

And a big fuck off to the suggestion that migrants don't value community and family.

‘We are in a stage of extreme capitalism'

The UK’s immigration problem is in the NUMBERS, not capitalism, and if ‘cheap labour’ was the key determinate, why did we have over 500,000 unemployed 16-24 year olds in 2004, over 700,000 in 2007 pre crash, and then over 900,000 in 2010 – as in theory, they’d have been as cheap as chips.

A few years back net EU immigration had halved from mid 2004 levels, but who’d have thought in 2010 that the EU several years after the crash would have unemployment at nearly twice that of the UK and either in or teetering on, their THIRD recession to our one – thereby making the UK an attractive destination for those either unemployed, or see better future prospects here.

UKIP is questioning, has questioned for a decade or so, a key pillar of the EU re the right to work/live within member states hence Farage’s observation that we had opened our doors to a potential 500 million new citizens.

Putting aside the UKIP trade mark scare tactics, we do have a numbers problem, if not within the key skills jobs market, certainly within public services and homes that SHOULD have been seen and provisioned for if not beforehand, but during. But that would have meant acknowledging their screw ups before a general election.

This failure on key policies during the worst recession in over 80-years gave rise to UKIP, as it has to every far right and left wing parties across Europe. Not because they have any innovative solutions (as clearly they haven’t), it is because they look to score political points on stating the bleedin’ obvious other parties couldn’t as travel/work rights was baked in to the EU the UK signed up to.

As it is increasing clear that most EU countries not only support that free movement, they rely on it, if Cameron cannot control numbers by reducing some of the tax benefits, there is only ONE EU POLITICAL QUESTION, does the UK political parties stop agitating the population and accept it, or democratically leave, via a 2017 EU Referendum.

That is it, pure and simple, stay in the EU as is and put up with UKIP dividing UK society for electoral gain for years to come, or ONCE AND FOR ALL, let the people decide via a referendum and shut out the United Kingdom Independence Party - that offers nothing different on UK domestic policies, but similar to the past 21-years on the EU, pretent they do.

A lot of those 2 million British pensioners living in Spain etc emigrated years ago, whereas EU migration to Britain is running in the region of about 250,000 per year.

Of course migrants value community and family, but the majority of the country is not migrant and they value their community and traditions and some feel that their community is changing.

'Not because they have any innovative solutions (as clearly they haven’t)'

What do you think UKIP's policy of getting out of the EU and restoring national sovereignty and democratic control by the people is if not innovative?

Of course communities change. That's not a bad thing, that's just life.

Only 400k of the 2.2m are pensioners. I don't know what your source for the claim is that all the Brits emigrated years ago, or what difference it makes to the fact that there is an equilibrium

'or what difference it makes to the fact that there is an equilibrium'

The difference is that the emigration is historic i.e. in the past whereas every year another approx 250,000 EU citizens come to Britain. How many UK citizens go to live in the EU per year?

Do the figures mention that or do they use emigration over the past 40 years?

320,000 emigrated in 2013, 349,000 emigrated in 2012, can't find a figure for 2014 right now, but would be surprised if that figure had suddenly dropped to zero

Of those who emigrated, how many were foreign nationals returning to their countries?

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/november-2013/msqr.html#tab-4--Where-are-people-migrating-to-or-migrating-from--