Immigration figures

[Qwertyipad]

The figures are going up by 40%. Am I the only one that wants a points system like Australia so we can protect low paid workers and fill are skill shortages.

I only have one mum. she has lived in London since 1960 so why shouldn't she notice the change.

People are confused diversity (ethnic) with multiculturalism. Ethnic diversity is having many different ethnic groups in a country. Multiculturalism is having 2 or more cultures in a country. Therefore you can say I don't support multiculturalism but support ethnic diversity. That statement is not racist. However you could have multiculturalism with just white European culture. Eg Spanish, Italian, French and Swedish cultures but then a country would not be ethnically diverse.

Btw confusing the two means any potential arguments are flawed. Britain has been multicultural since Celtic, Norman's and Viking times. Also to point out white British people share something like 98% of their Dan with Germans 96% with Russians and 90% with Poland so genetically speaking they are British and we are polish. We can't define nationality by race but we can define heritage. If a person said their they were the only person with European heritage can you imagine how racist they'd sound. Also Caucasian doesn't mean necessary White it also is not a race.

Also Caucasian doesn't mean necessary White it also is not a race

This is so true. Weren't the young men accused of bombing the Boston marathon authentically Caucasian and considered non-white?

The UK does have a point system for non-EU migrants.

However, as this points system does not apply for people who are applying via family reunion etc etc, it is largely toothless and does not affect the majority of non-EU migrants. I think it is only fair to point this out.

Toothless? Tell that to the families that are ripped apart by the financial threshold britcits.blogspot.co.uk/

There's already a point type system for non-EU immigrants. It isn't easy to get in if you're not from the EU.

I believe we need to introduce this for EU immigrants.

Readytobreak - does that mean you would also like to remove the right to free movement from British citizens? There's as many British migrants living in EU member states as EU migrants living in the UK.

How come one is a benefit stealer and the other is claiming what they're entitled to? Because from where I'm standing the only difference is the country they were born in.

Isn't that the very definition of racism?

No Nice it really isn't. TBH, it is that kind of wooly thinking that has allowed genuine niggles and minor issues to go unaddressed and so UKIP have capitalized on that.

A lot of objections to foreigners are down to pure prejudice. People blame foreigners for their inability to get a job or a house and they get uneasy about people who don't look or sound like them, or trivial stuff like new products appearing on the shelves of the supermarkets

How are you defining 'a lot' Cog?

UKIP itself is riven with covert racism but I think they are picking up a lot of supporters now who aren't prejudiced or racist, just aggrieved or worried.

I am really getting concerned that dismissing people as prejudiced is part of the problem and is helping UKIP to pick up protest votes.

40% of care in my county is delivered by mainly EU immigrants, it is very hard to recruit British staff to care for our own vulnerable people - and this is not minimum wage work.

But immigtation isn't the 'Yes, unlimited immigration please' or 'No, no immigration whatsoever thanks' issue it is often portrayed as is it higgle?

Of course immigration has been a good thing. Only racists and xenophobes (inc most of UKIP), the far right (inc most of UKIP) and the terminally nostalgic (inc etc) think otherwise.

But there have been minor issues that needed finessing, that weren't (largely because of a general nervousness about even acknowledging mass immigration was happening) and there is a debate to be had about how much future immigration is sustainable/beneficial/supportable/possible.

Even the recent accession of Romania and Bulgaria have dramatically changed the game and by refusing to engage with the future ramifications of that, we all play into UKIP's hands. I just wish there were some trustworthy projections to discuss.

The prospect of UKIP gaining a substantial number of parliamentary seats off the back of all this squeamishness is terrifying.

'A lot' means that racism/xenophobia is never far from the surface in British culture. Look at the frosty welcome extended to other incomers down the years... Irish, West Indians, Asians. All the same arguments about 'taking our jobs' and so forth have been taken out and dusted off on about a 20-30 year rolling cycle. Being British few would go so far as open hostility but all it takes is for someone to stand up and legitimise prejudice as simply listening to the aggrieved and worried, and they will quickly get a following of people who would never class themselves as racist. Mosely, Powell, now Farage. Always eloquent, educated speakers dressing it up as concern for the working man, protecting jobs & making the country a better place..... so it's important to challenge the assertion that immigration is bad for Britain wherever it rears its ugly head.

Because of immigration (immigrants have more children than non-immigrants) we are now actually at our highest birthrate for years and years. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-birth-rate-leaps-by-18-in-a-decade-9107483.html

Population Ponzi schemes do not work. When the expanded population ages, you have to import even more workers to pay for them.

'A lot' means that racism/xenophobia is never far from the surface in British culture. Look at the frosty welcome extended to other incomers down the years... Irish, West Indians, Asians

Really? Not my experience at all.

The vast majority of British people aren't racist are they? Certainly not now. We are at least 30 years past that.

so it's important to challenge the assertion that immigration is bad for Britain wherever it rears its ugly head.

Getting past this binary good/bad, yes/no, all/nothing understanding of immigration as an issue would be a good start in confounding Farage.

The UK does have a point system for non-EU migrants.

However, as this points system does not apply for people who are applying via family reunion etc etc, it is largely toothless and does not affect the majority of non-EU migrants. I think it is only fair to point this out.

No it isn't fair to point this out because the figures don't back you up. Family visas represent only a small proportion of the overall number of visas granted. Most non-EU migrants enter the UK for study or work. Get your facts right.

WidowWadman I agree, the new rules for non EU spouse visas are absolutely appalling. I was lucky to fall under the old rules (though we would have still qualified under the new ones). I'm Australian, & when the UK joined the EU, it rather shafted Oz, but nowhere near as much as it did NZ. The only concession I had when applying for visa/ILR etc. was I didn't have to take an English test (how nice!)

"We are at least 30 years past that."

Racism stopped in the eighties? I think you're confusing the advent of 'political correctness' with the demise of racism. Just because we no longer have Bernard Manning telling Irish jokes on prime time TV, it doesn't mean that prejudice has died a death.

Not the demise, no. The marginalisation.

What you're asserting Cogito is that racism is widespread; a majority British trait. I don't think it is.

where are all these figures that eu economic migrants are "playing the system"? The figures I have seen is that they cost the system less than the native population.

do they "play the system" more than natives?

I hate racism, but I'm not totally convinced by open borders either. In the old days Northern Ireland had a policy of not allowing a person to immigrate, even from other parts of the UK, unless they were going to fill a job that could not be filled by someone for Northern Ireland.

I do think that locally-born people in any country or region should have extra privileges when it comes to employment, and that applies to the country where I live too.

The UK population has increased by 14 million in my life time.

We can't sustain quarter of a million new arrivals a year. It's common sense isn't it? We just aren't that big a country

coyoacan - why should those who do not have the drive and determination to move somewhere else to build their lives have privileges when it cones to employment over those who do? Surely an employer should be free to choose the right candidate based on aptitude and attitude. "Has grown up close to the workplace" should not matter one bit as a selection criteria.

And for those purposes it's pretty irrelevant if the other candidate came from the same town, or a different city, county, or even country.

(Hit "send" to soon) - I live 35 miles away from my office - does that mean I steal a job from a local? Plus, whilst I've got British citizenship, I'm an immigrant, so am I doubly a job thief?

why should those who do not have the drive and determination to move somewhere else to build their lives have privileges when it cones to employment over those who do?

Because life is more than about drive and determination and the rights of employers. There are such things as community. And being able to stay where you were brought up should be a human right, IMHO.

I'm sure many refugees would agree.

'why should those who do not have the drive and determination to move somewhere else to build their lives have privileges when it cones to employment over those who do?'

Because they are part of the community in which they live and the community has a responsibility to provide employment and good prospects for them.