Immigration figures

[Qwertyipad]

The figures are going up by 40%. Am I the only one that wants a points system like Australia so we can protect low paid workers and fill are skill shortages.

'The funny thing is that immigrants are apparently coming to this country to steal our benefits and steal our jobs.'

In-work benefits.

'So what are Next to do, let the company go down the pan during the busy Christmas period.'

Next need to pay more.

Well if many people are doing cheap labour jobs it means you get a decrease.

what's the evidence for this?

We need a system of points taking skilled workers from around the world (not just Europe) like nurses, paramedics and doctors of whom we have shortages.

we have open door immigration for europeans. if there was a skills shortage in nurses and doctors (and there is) europeans can simply come in and fill those jobs. A points system will just create a huge new bureaucracy because we in britain love pushing paper.

People can't afford to take a job that will only last a short while, it's not a case of not wanting to. We need a better system so that if you take a job that turns out to be temporary then you don't have to start all over again with your housing benefit etc, thereby getting behind on rent and risking the roof over your family's heads. Maybe there needs to be some kind of overlap to allow people to get properly on their feet when they start a new job. If you are on a low income and have to work a month before you get paid but your benefits have stopped what do you do if you have no savings? I honestly think people would be snapping up all the short term jobs (such as Next, mentioned earlier) if they didn't feel they would then be in a worse financial state when the job finished.

There is very little sense to this debate because what it's ultimately masking is straightforward good old fashioned racism. Happens every single time there is some influx of workers from overseas - Irish, West Indian, Indian subcontinent, now East Europeans and others - the arguments around taking jobs/benefits/housing/etc are based on very poor or non-existent 'statistics'. The scaremongers point to extra crime, overpopulation and other bogeyman standards. It's racism... nothing more, nothing less.

You've got the same right to free movement as European immigrants coming here. What's stopping you?

we have well intentioned though ultimately damaging policies which encourage people to stay in areas with no jobs. meanwhile, hard working eastern europeans are willing to move to parts of Britain with ample employment.

In-work benefits

Really? How come it's wrong for a EU person to come to the UK, get a job and get in work benefits? But it's fine for a UK person to do the same?

How come one is a benefit stealer and the other is claiming what they're entitled to? Because from where I'm standing the only difference is the country they were born in.

Isn't that the very definition of racism?

An increase in immigration is great news for the economy. It's a pity no politicians have the balls to say so.

The only time I claimed in work benefits was as a joint tax credit claim when my British husband was unemployed for a few months. I wonder how these proposals will affect British/EU mix families.

WHats the obsession with Australia and the point system? Plenty of people can go to Australia to live and work without any points. DH and I included. All kiwis are free to go there and plenty of us fill their low skilled jobs . Those too blind to see it should really understand Australia becfore yet again put is out.

Plenty of Polynesians can get into NZ and I'm not sure via what category. They can go to OZ if they wish after 3 years in NZ.

You've got the same right to free movement as European immigrants coming here. What's stopping you?

Does that mean "if you brits don't like it fuck off to some other country"

Niceguy I'll be round later to sit on your settee, eat your food and watch your tv. I hope you don't think you have more right to be in your house than I do. If you did that would be racist. (well it would if the word meant what you seem to think it means)

People in Europe do not immigrate, they migrate as they have freedom of movement in the EU just as we Brits do. I agree with niceguy in that a lot of times opposition to immigration is just masking racism. I see no one mentioning the number of Brits that work in Europe or the hundreds of thousands who have retired on the costas causing problems for the locals there. It's just 'them' and 'us' which amounts to prejudice and racism.

'sit on your settee and eat your food'..... that's ridiculous. The better analogy would be moving into the house next door, surely? Maybe fixing the place up, paying council tax, buying things in local shops .... you know.. being a useful part of the community?

Concerns over immmigration are nothing to do with racism. That is such a lazy argument. I have no problem with people coming over that can fully support themselves including privately educating their children & paying for their own healthcare. If they can't even do that, they are freeloading.

Backoff No, it doesn't mean "fuck off to another country" it just points out that British citizens have the same right to move to anywhere in the EU to work as other EU citizens. There's nothing forcing them to stay where they are.

Why are tax payers who happen to not be born British freeloaders if they use the public services they are funding?

Of course not all concerns over migration are racist. For administrative reasons, town councils need a good idea of numbers in order to plan things like building programmes or school places. There have to be a few checks to make sure people have the right permission, no criminal record or similar. But most of the arguments put forward are not on that basis, are highly contradictory or nonsensical on closer examination, and are simply an expression of not liking foreigners.

That's not a better analogy unless we own a deserted piece of land that immigrants can farm and build on (rather like the US in the early days).
I suppose I should have said that in between watching TV I will sweep the floor, but I don't think that would make me more welcome.

There are good reasons for and against immigration, but it makes me mad when someone says 'racism' as a substitute for thinking it through and when people talk as though unrestricted immigration is a viable policy. You have to have some limit so it's really about where you draw the line.

unless we own a deserted piece of land that immigrants can farm and build on (rather like the US in the early days)

That's an unfortunate analogy, Briefly, the only reason the land was deserted was because of genocide.

Immigration is a complex problem but at the moment in the UK it seems to be, as someone said above, another means of distracting people from what the banks did and are doing.

I'm not surprised the birthrate is falling, housing is so expensive and young people may not fit the criteria for affordable housing.

I think a points system isn't a bad idea but being in a sandwich shop yesterday I found thr Eastern European who served me was lovely. I think New Labour encouraged too much immigration in 1997.

The 'limit' is the level of opportunity in the UK. If we were on the skids economically rather than growing then migrants would not choose to come here. If migrants couldn't afford to live here on the wages being offered, they wouldn't come.

Eastern Europeans are not a different race to us they are white like the majority of people in Britain. I don't understand why people think British people don't want to do the jobs they will if you paid them a decent wage. Xenophobic is the correct term and I think Eastern Europeans are helpful and friendly went shopping today and the lady was so helpful. However Im sensible enough to realise that too much of something good is bad

123 they are a different race to me and I'm british.

I'm all for immigration, however our services have to keep up - they are not - not the fault of the immigrants and certainly not the fault of brits.

Our books aren't balancing on any level and we need major rebalancing.

BTW 123 - I'm pretty fed up the increasing racism directed to my british mum by eu immigrants who cannot get their heads around the fact that many british people don't look like you.

Hoarudeforme I assume you are not white British but another ethnic group. Eastern Europe is not ethically diverse (almost 100% white). Western Europe is diverse though. I read an article about Eastern European be nazi marches but again not the majority. People need to remember whatever immigrantion policy we will have rows over it. If we get more strict then people will argue racism (stupid lazy argument as pointed out in my previous post) if we stay the same people will vote ukip. We need some sort of policy that meets in the middle and can't think of any other way than a full points system.

A lot of objections to foreigners are down to pure prejudice. People blame foreigners for their inability to get a job or a house and they get uneasy about people who don't look or sound like them, or trivial stuff like new products appearing on the shelves of the supermarkets. I don't think this is an abnormal reaction to change but it needs to be recognised and it needs to be managed.

No need for a points system for EU migrants because we have free movement of labour. Immigration from outside the EU is already regulated. What we need - or rather what authorities need - is a kind of census i.e information about who is intending to come, where they plan to live, how old they are, how many children they have etc. That way we can manage the impact of newcomers a little better and prepare for any significant changes in requirements for schools, housing, medical services etc.

My belief is that people would be less xenophobic and less open to exploitation by unscrupulous, lying parties like UKIP, if local populations were better prepared.

You have to have some limit so it's really about where you draw the line.

there is a limit. What the market and economy can support.

It seems that Britain is in fact making a pretty good trade. We take young energetic spanish, greek and poles who are looking for work. Our older retired folk go to Spain. Immigrants, apparently, cost the NHS less than the local population (simply because of the age of immigrants). For their part, the Spanish media is also griping about immigrants and all the old Brits there costing the Spanish healthcare system gobs of money. However, those older Brits are also moving to where they want. My guess is that Spain offers a cheaper, warmer and more affordable retirement.

People are proposing the young people of Spain stay in Spain where there are no jobs, and older Brits should be forced to stay in this cold damp country when they would prefer to be in a warmer place?

I am not seeing the huge advantage in that.