Tania Clarence, who killed her 3 disabled children, sentenced to hospital order

[Spero]

This is such a horrible and sad case.

I have just been reading this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30096820

and what struck me was what her solicitor said:

"Tania's depression was certainly not assisted by the constant pressure placed on the family by some individuals within the medical profession and social services who could not agree with Tania and Gary Clarence's stance of prioritising quality of life for their children and who were not readily willing to submit the children to operations and other interventions that they felt were not appropriate in the circumstance," he added.

He said Mr Clarence was assisting Kingston Borough Council in their serious case review of the case but wanted to make clear that allegations of neglect had been "wholly unfounded".

This seems to have uncomfortable echoes of the Aysha King case and professionals using the threat of care proceedings to get parents to comply with certain treatment regimes.

Interested to know what others think.

I cannot know what I would do in such a situation.

I do know that we make people continue to suffer in a way that is not acceptable for animals - but when it is children who cannot make their own decision, the position is impossible.

I feel that sometimes quality of life is more important than quantity - but that needs to be each person's own decision.

I have every sympathy with poor Tanya. What sheer hell she must have been going through I don't even want to imagine. She wasn't neglectful or uncaring. Everybody in this is a victim.

Such an awful story. And yes, like pp, I do have much sympathy for tania Clarence.

There really needs to be an investigation into this.

Did the family and esp. the mother get all the help they needed, were they being pushed into taking decisions they didn't want to make by medical staff and were they supported by social services.

The saddest thing I read - or among the saddest - was that she killed the children shortly after her original SW was removed 'for getting too close to the family' and replaced by someone relatively young and inexperienced.

yes, I found that pretty horrifying too. She had finally found a SW that she could confide in and they withdrew her.

There seems to be an almost pathological fear within the 'agencies' of getting friendly with the 'client'.

I compare this to when I lived in a village 30 years ago and everyone knew the local District Nurse who would stop you in a shop and ask how you or your relatives were, or the local teacher who took a continuing interest in his pupils long after they had left school.

Everyone seems to be so de-personalised nowadays. No wonder people don't feel properly supported

The decision to change the social worker was unconscionable. Heaven forbid she became close to the family.

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30098466 Up to 60 different professionals involved with the family, often turning up unannounced. In 2011 a doctor noted that Clarence was "seriously over-stretched/under intolerable strain" from all the medical appointments. Doctors insisting on invasive treatments and the threat of child protection procedures if the parents didn't obey.

The poor woman was under intolerable pressure, on top of the strain of caring for three seriously disabled children she knew would die young. Good grief.

I wish I could be sure that Kingston SS and all the various health and social services professionals involved in this case, and those who set policies and allocate resources, would review their actions, operations and decisions to make sure no other parent is pushed to such extremes.

sorry this link should work

even if the professionals were all entirely supportive, the fact they were dealing with 60 of them would have been exhausting.

has anyone explained why the father was supposedly on holiday with their eldest child? It seems rather inappropriate if the mother was under such strain at the time

Maybe the eldest child deserved a break?

My child died from SMA, I can absolutely understand why she did what she did.

Watching my tiny child, the person I loved most in all the world in pain all the time, ge

My child died from SMA, I can absolutely understand why she did what she did.

Watching my tiny child, the person I loved most in all the world in pain all the time, ge

t endless teats and procedures, knowing it would need get better was unbearable.

I do not judge her at all.

This was a horrible case, three children dead .

I do feel for their Mum though as she was obviously seriously mentally ill.

As far as a review goes there will be Serious Case Review done and I gather the children's Dad is contributing to this.

A terribly sad case all round.

Thinking of the children but also of their Mum so unwell.

Iamso

Kingston Social Services have been found 'inadequate' twice in the last three years and their child protection services have been removed from the council and are now handled by Richmond Council. So it wouldn't surprise me if their approach was found to be lacking - we're hardly talking about the gold standard of social work.

That didn't stop the head of Childrens' Services receiving a £120k pay off of course.

Iamsofuckingfurious, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

Treats, good point. I wonder whether this happened before or after Richmond too over? And yes re. pay off - Birmingham Council's chief exec is the highest paid local authority boss in the country, I believe earning over £200k, despite Birmingham children's services being inadequate (in chaos) for years and despite the deaths of vulnerable children year after year.

Why do 'Children's Services' in LAs across this land find it impossible to support families and protect children?

Is it incompetence, dogma, lack of funding.... Or all of these?

Because they tend to see the children as The Children.
Something separate, not part of a family. The focus is on the child, not the family the child belongs to.

God it's just heartbreaking for the whole family.
I feel sorry for all of them, such a pain to bear.

Absolutely heart wrenching. Can sense her utter hopelessness and despair even with out the reactive depression.

No support at all for these suffering families least if all the well off ish middle class who window dress. A facade of coping.

I'm devastated for them all and admire the love and understanding of the father.

So sorry iamso.

I do not judge her either. I have nothing but he deepest sympathy for her.

I just want to hold her and make it all go away, the desperation she must have felt to do that, the life they had all been 'living' - just hell on earth. The pressure from the doctors and ss to submit her children to more operation and more pain.

We don't make animals suffer, we shouldn't make people suffer either. It's inhumane.

Would I take that option for a child in that situation? If I had the courage, yes. I doubt I would have the courage though.

I feel desperately sorry for her eldest DD.