Oscar Pistorius Trial part 9

[JillJ72]

Starting a new thread as part 8 is nearly full, here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2080468-Oscar-Pistorius-Trial-Part-8

I agree InfinitySeven about the "blood money" thing. Calling it "blood money" was a terrible way to put it. It has a lot of different meaning but some of them have a very dark meaning. It also seemed odd that Nel said the Steencamp's didn't want any money but they are going to pay back every cent. Very confusing.

Interesting morning with lots of to-ing and fro-ing about conditions in SA prisons. Nel holding his own with the questioning. Vergeer (for the Defence) seems to be saying that OP shouldn't be sent to prison whatever he had done. Nel questioning this and asking if he had been found guilty of murder, would he still not be sent to prison.

Vergeer is a probation officer but seems rather clueless.

Nel is now talking about English courts and the Dewani case. Didn't really get the point. I think it's something to do with the possibility of Dewani going to prison in SA.

Judge Masipa now querying Vergeer's statement about how shocked OP was when held in custody straight after the crime.

It is, I think, the point that the UK court deemed prison conditions in SA to be acceptable.

The money thing isn't making sense to me either. They say they don't want his 'blood money' but have been taking money from him for months and months. Only now they will pay it back...?!

I think OP offered them a substantial amount. They didn't take that (and called it blood money?), but they did take the equivalent of £300 a month for 18 months but want to pay it back

They are saying (I should be working more than I am today) that they intended the monthly payments to be taken out of any civil claim against OP, but as they are now not intending to pursue that claim, they will pay him back outright.

I assume they can now afford to pay it back from media payments. They were pretty poor before. I think Reeva sent them money to help out, so presumably those monthly payments sort of replaced those.

At last we are hearing more about Reeva as a person from her cousin. Very moving.

It's been all about OP and what he is like, his charity work etc, so I feel this is long overdue.

This is heartbreaking and hard to watch. A lot of the court are in tears.
Martin is Reeva's cousin (female) and this is a comment -
"Martin says she spoke to her uncle and aunt last night about giving evidence today. She wanted to know that they would be comfortable with her talking about them. She did not want to disappoint them.

They told her she had their blessing, and that she should be Reeva’s voice.

Barry Steenkamp told her he would love to take the stand but that he could not. “He would just lose it.”

Martin says she herself is on medication for depression and anxiety. Her children are receiving therapy. Her daughter has spent two weeks in an institution to help her cope; she and Reeva were very close."

Call me cynical but I don't see how putting a Justice Department Official on the stand to talk about the prison conditions is going to do a whole lot. I don't see any way of making prison sound accommodating. Just google prison conditions in South Africa and you get a general idea. I am not picking on South Africa in particular. Prisons in general are rife with problems and I find it hard to believe anyone is going to be able to describe it in a different light. It's kinda like saying a land fill smells like a batch of freshly baked cookies. I just can't see it.

This is an article on the trial itself from a Canadian legal perspective, it's pretty interesting: www.oba.org/Sections/Criminal-Justice/Articles/Articles-2014/September-2014/Did-Oscar-Pistorius-Get-a-Fair-Trial

Very interesting article. I am not a Nel fan. I find his behavior appalling.

I think I agree up north. I'm not sure he did such a great job during the trial and I don't think that's with hindsight.

Regarding Nel, I would be interested to know just how common this kind of behaviour is in SA courts. To me, at times he was downright unprofessional and my cousin (a former Judge here) told me he simply would not be allowed to do that in a UK court. As I think the article suggests, he seemed to be taking this case very personally. (I've heard it said he asked for the case, am not sure if that is true.)

As for the guy form the Corrections service, I really think he is not doing the SA prison service much good at all. His comment that SA prisons "are the best in the whole of Africa" doesn't mean much since most African prisons are acknowledged as being hellholes.

"Prison torture merely an allegation" per Mr Modise. They will not mix sick people. Really! Like I already said I really don't think too many will buy into his tale.

I read where because of delays the sentencing may not happen until next month. The judge has said over and over they need to get things finished up this week. But I read Mr Nel will present 3 or 4 more witnesses. Reeva's parents are not going to testify. I did read where he might call Samantha Taylor's mom. I am completely baffled by Mr. Nel's obsession with the Taylor's. I feel Samantha Taylor is a scorned young lady and her mother is cashing in on the entire incident which I find despicable. I would be very hesitant to believe a word that comes out of either one of their mouths.

Mr Nel is starting to look like a desperate man to me. It seems he has gotten a little caught up in the fame of the trial and isn't ready to give up his moment in the spotlight. He needs to take his final bow and let the Judge make her decision.

Possible mistake on my part. I now read Mr Nel will call 3 or 4 witnesses in all and sentencing may be Tuesday. I don't want to lead anyone astray.

Apparently they still have to present written reports as well as this, so we may not actually get a sentence until Masipa is free again in three weeks!

As for Sam Taylor, she is said to have made nasty comments about Reeva on Twitter and she and her sister are also alleged to have actually sent such messages to Reeva herself and now she sits there with Reeva's picture pinned to her dress, hypocritical or what?

Also Mikey Schultz, a self confessed murderer (he cut a deal with Nel and testified for the State) and a friend of Marc Batchelor, was seen making intimidatory comments to Aimee Pistorius during recess today. They seem like a thoroughly unpleasant bunch, the lot of them.

Yes I found Miss Taylor wearing the picture of Reeva pin very difficult to stomach. She was harassing her on twitter when she was with OP now she is supporting her.

Then her mother, Mark Bachelor, Jared Mortimore and Mikey Schultz all showing up in court. I don't think any of these people are in court with good intentions. I fear things may get out of hand if this doesn't finish up soon.

Sentencing will be passed on Tuesday.

Sam Taylor has been on the stand. To me she has no part to play in sentencing. Indeed, if we want to go that far, then (will I get flamed?) I would be asking why her mother allowed her at such an age to have such a long relationship with such a volatile man. Her going on the stand again feels quite unsavoury, and yes - contradictory.

The only people that to me have any validity for sentencing are Reeva's family and then by contrast OP's family. I don't think anyone else has the right to say anything unless nominated by either family to speak on their behalf.

I've read that there are no more state witnesses but tomorrow is the summing up by both Nel and Roux. As for Nel appearing desperate... well... if this was my daughter, I too would want him trying every trick in the book to get justice.

Agree Sam Taylor isn't a particularly credible witness.

I think the SA system is different from the Canadian one and the UK one. To me, Nel was trying to ensure there was justice for Reeva. I really don't find robust questioning of the accused upsetting in the context of a murder trial. I found Roux' questioning of lay witnesses much more offensive since it may deter witnesses from coming forward in future cases.

I'm finding it quite easy to ignore the Taylor/Batchelor drama. It's all irrelevant to the issue of sentencing. (I also don't find it that inconsistent that Taylor could be mean/abusive to Reeva on Twitter but still be upset that she was murdered.)

I cannot believe how long this is going on! I don't want to hear anything more about Pistorious or any more about the ins and outs pertaining to him.

I wish the judge would just pass sentence. And I hope she is robust enough to take charge and serve some serious justice for his crime after all this waiting.

Roux giving his final summing up. He is talking about humanity in justice and is arguing that the sentence should be centred round that. he says the punishment should be giving something back to society, and says 'he felt horrible about her death and he has lost everything'. I think not and I'm looking forward to Nel's response.