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Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

985 replies

AndHarry · 15/08/2014 17:12

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

OP posts:
runes · 19/08/2014 14:48

Wow isitme. The Israeli's reallu are a shining beacon of democracy, unless they disapprove of who is elected on which case they'll starve you into submission Hmm

Yruapita · 19/08/2014 14:50

wordsmith i find it astounding how similar South Africa's treatment of the blacks was to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Many years ago, I worked briefly with a white South African man. He also used to be a soldier in South Africa. Strangely enough, i used to find the little that he spoke very robotic too. His wife who also worked there told me never to ask about his days as a soldier. Made me wonder what he had witnessed. He was definitely traumatised.

Netanyahu snubbed Mandela's funeral as he knows very well that he is guilty of perpetrating the same injustices that Mandela suffered, but of course remains unrepentant.

I saw this piece about Netanyahu's father's views on the Palestinians:

he stated: "That they won't be able to face [anymore] the war with us, which will include withholding food from Arab cities, preventing education, terminating electrical power and more. They won't be able to exist, and they will run away from here. But it all depends on the war, and whether we will win the battles with them.

As the American journalist David Remnick said: "To understand Bibi, you have to understand the father"

runes · 19/08/2014 14:50

really are in to submission. Hate typing on smartphones!

wordsmithsforever · 19/08/2014 15:10

Yruapita that's a chilling quote from Netanyahu's father.

Isitmebut · 19/08/2014 15:49

PigletJohn ...... it was YOUR point; the question is a blanket blockade ban or not, if it is not a blanket ban and goods are being returned you have a point, if blanket you are cynically taking a few items for your pro Hamas agenda.

Which is it please?

But as I've shown on the Israel/Palestine thread, Hamas brought in thousands or rockets/missiles and factory parts/components to make their own Iranian missiles able to hit Tel Aviv - they were not received by DHL, they were smuggled in via the 1,200 tunnels to Egypt and their Muslim Brotherhood parent organization, now closed, hence their NEED for a port.

Moreover, most other consumer goods were also brought into 'the people' this way, plus a Hamas Tax, which allowed them to increase their power base so fast, buying up land/influence with the proceeds of smuggling.

ISIS increased their power base/influence by taking over oil wells and taking other wealth by force, not as 'social' as Hamas, but the result is similar

Isitmebut · 19/08/2014 15:56

PigletJohn ……. Re your long term questions re Israel and Palestine.

Re Israeli land give back – Whether Israel can ever trust Palestinians who elected Hamas after they began to give them more autonomy my moving EVERY SETTLER out of Gaza, OR while Israel is still under threat by unstable regimes/countries around them that previously together tried to wipe them off the face of the earth, I doubt it, for the foreseeable future. What government in their right mind would give those militarily opposed to Israel, more space from which to attack them and finish the job they collectively started?

Re non Jew citizen rights – frankly I have no idea how those ‘rights’ would change their lives, but would that include pensions etc, or Human Rights Jihadist suicide bombers give Israeli citizens? From memory, I’m not sure Japan gives foreign workers full citizen rights, or Germany with Turkish workers there for decades, even China giving their own people ‘rights’ – so as Israel is no EU, I’ll pass on that for now, unless pressed and I’ll do my homework.

Re illegal settlements (clearly away from Gaza the current humanitarian Hamas crisis) – they should stop, whether illegal or not.

PigletJohn ….. but does that justify the democratically elected Hamas using their own voter casualties via starting their artillery ping-pong matches, to try and get world opinion to get Israel and their citizens to feel more ‘secure’ in these even more troubled times????

On a t-t-t-t-timing basis, is a Jihadist Hamas perpetual war within a troubled region with more regime changes and intra Muslim aggression than I can remember, going to improve or make things politically worse with Israel, than in 2006, when they were elected???

When will Israel and it's people feel secure enough to even think of giving back land - and no one needs to be Israeli to ask that questions, as it should be the 'bleedin obvious, to those encouraging Hamas to continue it's war/casualties in the current form.

Isitmebut · 19/08/2014 16:15

P.S. Just thought, do Palestinians working in other Arab states i.e. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE etc have the FULL citizen rights of those countries?

TheHoneyBadger · 19/08/2014 16:36

i'm loving the way 'giving a shit about human life' is being called, 'hamas apologism' now. interesting.

it's like saying caring about the poor in england is being a tory apologist. errr.....?

Yruapita · 19/08/2014 16:51

Israel is not committed to peace in any shape or form.

isitme you ask when will Israel feel secure enough to even think of giving back land. At least you admit they stole it. That's a start. You have admitted that a heinous crime has been committed. You also dont have to be an Israeli to have figured out by now that Israeli regime has never been serious about peace.

www.middleeasteye.net/columns/israel-s-target-not-hamas-palestinian-statehood-1483362297

PigletJohn · 19/08/2014 17:15

isitmebut
it was YOUR point; the question is a blanket blockade ban or not, if it is not a blanket ban and goods are being returned you have a point, if blanket you are cynically taking a few items for your pro Hamas agenda.

I do not understand what you are trying to say.

Can you explain why the Israeli blockade bans imports of shoes? and jam? and chocolate? Do you think they are weapons of war?

dingalong · 19/08/2014 17:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Backinthering · 19/08/2014 17:33

Someone mentioned that all would be well if only Hamas was removed. So please explain the vile treatment of occupants in the West Bank. The children murdered by live IDF gunfire. The land thefts. The theft of wawater. Bulldozing of homes and olive groves. Settler-only roads.
So, West Bank, no Hamas, still suffering. Anyone care to explain?

PigletJohn · 19/08/2014 17:34

they won't be allowed to vote, obviously, because they are not members of the superior race.

Isitmebut · 19/08/2014 17:35

Yruapita ….. FYI I have acknowledged more than once on these threads of Palestinian rights to the land currently called Israel and the UK’s blame for the present situation, no doubt on the Israel/Palestine thread as well.

The questions should be, do YOU acknowledge that for an Israeli citizen, whether lobbing rockets/missiles, tunnelling or walking up their street with a machine gun and grenades, in fear or outcome, it matters not a jot to them if it is a Jihadist Sunni Hamas, or Sunni ISIS terrorists doing the killing?

Do YOU acknowledge that due to wars due to Egypt, Syria, and Jordan trying to wipe them off the earth, and a similar statement from Shia Iran, that backs up it’s aims by bridging the Muslim divide by training and arming Sunni Hamas, there has been good reason for Israel NOT to feel secure – and how much volatile is it now when Arab regimes keep politically changing e.g. Egypt?

Do YOU acknowledge that the Palestinian relationship with Israel has gone seriously tits up since 2006, due to the election of Hamas?

PigletJohn · 19/08/2014 17:38

Palestinian relationship with Israel has gone seriously tits up since 1948, due to ethnic cleansing and land thefts.

Backinthering · 19/08/2014 17:54

Londongirl that is yet another ropey website with no credibility.

Isitmebut · 19/08/2014 17:56

PigletJohn ..please do not (pretend) to be thick, 'military stuff' can be smuggled in with consumer 'stuff', so I REPEAT if Israel is not taking the time to check every crate' and has a blanket ban on everything - you could add babies nappies and milk formula for better effect, it makes no difference.

For Hamas, like any tin pot regime, when they could make money via controls/the smuggling tunnels it was not an issue, they could meet supply and demand, it becomes more of an issue when they can't supply people/voters with their basic needs.

No wonder they are panicking in Egypt, but still won't demilitarise, it makes you think how much they care for their women and children - those that survive their military shelling ping pong strategy with Israel, that is..

So one more time, is it a blanket import ban, or are the Israelis opening crates, seeing they are the items you mention, and refusing them entry, which????

MajesticWhine · 19/08/2014 18:01

Do we have any common ground on this thread? Is anyone else interested in finding common ground and discussing solutions instead of adopting the polarised positions of goodies vs baddies and slagging everyone off who doesn't agree. Can we all acknowledge that there has been a lot of wrong on both sides, both the Israeli government and Hamas?

PigletJohn · 19/08/2014 18:18

isitmebut

your ramblings are not at all clear

  1. Are you not aware that Israel control and restricts imports to Gaza? And that this is referred to as "the Israeli Blockade?

  2. Are you not aware that among the goods which Israel forbids to be imported to Gaza are shoes, jam and chocolate?

Backinthering · 19/08/2014 18:44

All kicking off again. Rockets fired from Gaza and Isreal responded. Also withdrawn it's negotiators from Cairo. Hamas yet to confirm if it was them or some breakaway faction.

alemci · 19/08/2014 19:05

Is this better?
www.premierchristianradio.com/Topics/Society/World/Gaza-could-we-snatch-optimism-from-the-jaws-of-pessimism

from a christian perspective

TheHoneyBadger · 19/08/2014 19:15

what difference would have equal rights make? really? i mean really??? that was an actual question?

and no, personally i wouldn't see a religious radio station as a credible source. what with it being clearly upfront square in the name a station with an agenda and a set perspective in viewing things.

good sources are ones without religious bias amongst other obvious bias'.

alemci · 19/08/2014 19:23

have you actually read it Honey. I felt it was quite balanced.

Kelly1814 · 19/08/2014 19:24

Following.