Muslims anger at Popes remarks

[speedymama]

Story here .

I wonder if a Fatwa will be taken out against the Pope who had the temerity to say something about Islam? His comments have been misconstrued and to be honest, I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Both Christianity and Islam have a bloodthirsty history but I think that Muslims are becoming too hypersensitive towards their religion. Why is it that clerics like Abu Hanza can stand on the streets of London, spewing hateful rhetoric about the West but the minute anybody in the West says something about Islam, Muslims around the world get their headscarves and beards in a twist? Chill out for goodness sake. I don't recall the Muslim collective condenming the Iranian President when he called for Israel to be wiped of the planet. I'm certain that there are many Muslims who make disparaging remarks about Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Sikhism etc. Religion is not just about words, it is about living up to what you preach and how you treat others. No wonder so many people in this country are turned off religion.

I personally agreed with everything the Pope said and interestingly, so did my male Muslim friend.

i don't like the pope. i don't think what he sais was useful. Just wanted to point out he is the leader of the Roman Catholic church, not the Christian church [though for roman catholics it is probably the same thing ]

Oh God, the Philistines are upon us, as Miss Jean Brodie once said. As I understand it, he was at an academic conference, which is why he was quoting from (to us) an obscure 14c emperor. The conference was dealing with the historical relationship between Islam and Christianity and the use of violence to effect conversion. I think in that context, he has a right to quote whoever he likes, however obscure or historical.

He has the right to quote whoever he flipping well likes, full stop. Hate this idea that free speech has to be limited (ie not free) to avoid causing 'offence'.

no one is denying him his right to say what he wants.
we, well, some of us, are questining the wisdom of the pr people in him saying this in the current world situation.
sometimes its better to let history stay in thepast.

Disagree profoundly. If we took the time to actually study history, maybe we'd avoid repeating the same bloody mistakes again and again and learn to appreciate the things - like freedom of speech - that we seem all too ready to throw away.

'Questioning the wisdom of the pr people in him saying this in the current world situation' does mean 'he shouldn't have said it', doesn't it?

I disagree with that statement. What's that famous saying (which escapes me at the moment) about without knowledge of history, we are condemned to repeat it? History should never stay in the past, if it does we'll never learn from it.

but it was the only quote in the whole speech, (according to newsnight havent found whole speech yet but if a link is posted i will and stand to be corrected) so it seems biased, and i dont think that abu hamza could be compared to the pope, the closest equivilant in my mind is the man who stands in the high street clutching his Bible shouting that we are all sinners who need to repent or we will be struck down to burn in hell and our children will be damned for eternity.

Oops cross posted with Edam.

But yes, when should the pope/ anyone else examine the relationship between Christianity and Islam, if the current climate isn't suitable? At what stage will it become suitable? If ever? And what bits of history should be discreetly glossed over without honestly addressing them when that relationship is examined? And in fact, if people feel the need to gloss over bits of history/ quotes from history, what would be the point of examining anything?

yes littleducks, i said you cant compare the pope to abu hamza.

im too tired to get into this discussion right now, later i will come back and stand my ground, but right now, am off to bed.

and last, just before i go to bed, people who get offended by the use of the word mecca as in bingo etc, need a llesson in literacy, not culture.
maybe its only semantics, but mecca is a word that means a busy place. meeting place type place. Makkah is the name of the city. in english. cant do arabic font on here, so cant write arabic versions.
must go to bed now

Message withdrawn

The comments were not about muslims per se (from what i have read) but about the prophet Muhammad pbuh, so i suppose it would be like accusing a catholic saint of being violent, someone who is widely esteemed within the faith, i think that criticism of people commiting atrocities atm are vaild but in attacking a figure who is important to so many people it just widens the gap between people of different religions and causes conflict.

And history is a tricky thing, open to different interpretations and sources all have their own bias.

Lots of catholic saints were pretty bloody violent, but if you say so, catholics tend not to demand apologies. They say "oh yes, well, things were different in those days... pass the wine..."

but Im not demanding an apology, I just will take a very dim few of the pope from now on, there will always be more vocal and extreme people in any group who will take things too far, it just seems sad that people who take a view like mine have been lost when a figure such as the pope should be bringing people together not driving them apart.
Apologies if my analogy was incorrect i was trying hard to think of the most apropriate comparison.

The whole point of this is about freedom of speech. not what was said, whether it should have been said. It is about taking away the right to speak one's mind. Yet only certain sectors of society whether this be religious sectors, gender sectors, racial sectors are allowed to speak. Others have to shut their mouths and put up with insults amd accusations. They are not allowed to defend themselves.
This will change it cannot be sustained and it looks to me as if the worm is already turning anf I hope it is a bloody big worm beacuse there are certain groups who need a bloody good slap.

Stitch, the Head of the Church of England is the Monarch and its leading cleric is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

This has been the case for quite a few years now

Bloss I once raised the point about forced conversion in Islam. PeaceDove told me that it has never happened.

If you read the entire speech he was going on about not equating religion with violence and he quoted some historical person who was illustrating how the Islam religion advocates violence in some instances, such as the killing of Jews (which it does by the way).

FFS, the piss has been taken out of the catholics many many times and we have been called and accused of all sorts, yet you don't see us burning flags or inciting violence. Take the criticism Muslim people, think about it and respond appropriately. The Pope is saying that Islam has a history of violence within it's religion, the Muslims are so offended by this that they have to go away and cook up some violence in response!

Yeah, nice move!

I've not read the Pope's comments, so no idea if the Muslim outrage is completely justified.

However, my initial knee jerk response is : oh ffs, when are they not outraged about something? They're forever burning flags, screaming in a hysterical/demented fury, marching, etc. It's hard for me to drum up any compassion/sympathy for them, tbh.

I think we are all feeling the same tbh, they are not doing themselves any favours. As a nation we have bent over backwards to help, offering free English language lessons, funding faith schools, building mosques, community projects etc etc and we get it all thrown back in our faces and we are accused of being racist and intolerant.

Not everyone wanted to go to war with Iraq you know! In fact the majority of us had every sympathy for the Muslim point of view and we went on peaceful marches to demonstrate, but now we are threatened with violence and bloodshed for our sympathies and we are being told what we can and cannot say.

If you don't like this country or it's policies then piss off like I tried to do!

As a nation we have bent over backwards to see to the needs of everyone but our own countrymen. it's disgraceful.

I'm delighted the pope said the glaringly obvious.
You go Ratzinger!!

I think we're in a situation where everyone involved is in the wrong.
The Pope's remarks are 100% in line with the ideological line Ratzinger held when we was in charge of the Inquisition. Indeed it is normal for the leaders of supersitious fools to claim "we are right and everyone else is wrong". That's why Catholic doctrine includes Papal Infallibility.

Various Moslems over reacted. And yes, they do this a lot. The Pope was of course dishonest by his omissions.
The Crossbow was banned as inhumane by the Catholic church, except of course if you used it against Moslems.
The Pope himself was formerly in charge of the Inquisition, and organisation whose reputation for bruality makes ALQaeda look like traffic wardens.

His predecessors actively helped the Nazis and the Italian Fasicsts, and when their allies lost the war sheltered them against war crimes trials.

Both the Catholics and moslems have used forced conversion, so much so that that they have specific punshiments for thsoe who relapse.

Here's a quiz.
Under Catholic and Moslem doctrine, if you ar forced to convert, but change your mind do you:

a) Get a strongly worded letter from your local priest ?
b) have hot metal applied to your genitals ?

lol DC

Am loving the bit 'when we was in charge of the Inquisition'