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Childhood 'poisoned' by modern life

223 replies

Enid · 12/09/2006 10:14

junk food and no exercise is 'poisoning' childhood

Surely all these depressed/obese kids are an urban myth?

My take on it is that there have always been fat kids and stupid people, whats new?

Are the people that signed this letter living in a bubble of nostalgia?

OP posts:
kittywits · 14/09/2006 22:32

By the way I can spell every word on the post I have just written. My typos are really bad today

theshrimp · 14/09/2006 23:03

kittywits - i had an education like you. we weren't taught spelling or grammer or times tables. I had a hard time when I got to senior school. It was all too liberal.
But I loved eating Findus crispy pancakes and Angel delight and Bird's trifles. (Yuk!)

theshrimp · 14/09/2006 23:05

I mean liberal at primary school.

fatfox · 15/09/2006 06:49

I went to a really strict Catholic school and I think that's where I learnt to say please and thank you and be grateful for what I've got. It really makes me angry that people don't even have basic manners today - the main culprits being thrusting men in suits. who think they're the bees knees.

Sorry, have gone totally off the point....

I agree about the discipline factor - some of my closest friends have bought their children up with the " you can't tell children off, you should explain everything to them patiently" ethos and their children are some of the most ill mannered spoilt little so and so's I've ever come across. And yes, their parents (my friends) were hippies - 1990's hippies as opposed to 1960's ones.

On obesity; I think its a mixture of laziness and "I want it, I gotta have" it attitudes, plus the overwhelming in your face marketing from junk food manufacturers.

Who's kids always want to go to MacDonalds? I bet its not just mine! The irony is that even when we do go (twice a year ) DS and DD don't even eat the food as they don't like it; they just want to toys and the whole image thing because they see it advertised everywhere.

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 15/09/2006 07:35

lol at kittywits

more thoughts on hippies

beatie · 15/09/2006 07:53

"but back to the original article - it's got to be a good thing to widen the debate, surely? To ask questions about why so many children are so overweight, and what can be done to reverse the trend?"

I totally agree.

I'm sure the people who wrote this letter aren't trying to inflict some nostalgic notion of childhood upon today's children. In fact, it is us who have discussed the way things used to be. These people are concerned with the way things are now. The fact that things used to be worse or better doesn't give us reason for complacency.

Over the past decade much more has been discovered about the brains of babies and how infants develop. Armed with this imformation, the goal doesn't necessarily have to be how to enable children to have a warm fuzzy childhood, rather, how do we grow the best adults of the future.

monkey · 15/09/2006 08:43

yes, but people are saying when they were kids, they had the freedom to play, discover, to be alone with friends etc. That isn't a nostalgic 'warm fuzzy' childhood memeroy, but people recognising that this is a vital part of childhood that by & large has been lost.

Being able to play unsupervised & in a free & unstructured way with other kids and no adult enable kids to learn to compromise, to be independant, to solve problems, to solve conflicts, to look after each other, to delevop self confidence, to develop self reliance, to develop team mentality, leadership skills, trust.

Sure, these skills can be learnt other ways, but imo not so optimally.
We need to find a way to reclaim a child's right to do this.

Re food. I don't know how you undo the damage that has been done. Cheap fast food (and it is cheap - a "happy meal" in Mcdonalds costs, well I'm not sure, £3 or something? all this with a toy thrown in woohoo. Kids are being taught to eat crap, to eat quickly. They aren't leaning to sit down to eat as a family, to prepare food, how to prepare food, to use cutlery, that meal times are social occasions to be enjoyed. Eating on the move is a sure fire way to put on weight.

Also sleep. Surveys constantly show that kids aren't getting enough sleep - tvs in bedrooms, moblile phones, all contributing factors, and again it is shown that staying up too late & not getting enough sleep have terrible effects on concentration, energy levels. KIds if they're tired probably struggle to get out of bed, don't have time for breakfast, eat a bag of crips on the way to school and so it goes on......

prettybird · 15/09/2006 09:02

Following up on Monkey's point about her exeprience in Switzerland, here is a letter from yesterday's (Glasgow) Herald.

"To rethink what we want for children
A GROUP of nine of us, led by the Children in Scotland director, Bronwen Cohen, and including representatives from health, education, play and childcare, have just returned from a week-long study trip to Norway (part-sponsored by the Scottish Executive). The purpose of the trip was to learn how Norwegians plan and provide for their children.
Only days after our return a letter signed by all kinds of childhood experts appeared in The Daily Telegraph to raise the alarm about the growth in childhood depression and anxiety in the UK because of what we expose our children to, we being "the adult world" or "society".
Scotland is a small country, with both problems and advantages very similar to those of Norway. But as far as I was able to tell, to grow up in Norway is to live a very different life from the one most Scottish children know: hours of free play, outdoors in all weathers, no school uniforms, a sensible attitude to "safety" and an absence of testing which would make most Scottish teachers faint with envy.
At our launch of smilechildcare a fortnight ago, I asked: "What kind of a country is Scotland? How do we want to be known?" Now, I'd sum up the difference between the Norway I saw and the Scotland I live in as the difference between a society where trust flourishes and one where it does not. How else is one to understand the point we have reached, the fear and anxiety which pervade our lives, fostered and, indeed, magnified by the kind of news we are fed? If adults are fearful of their environment, of their food, of their neighbours, of the very air they breathe, how on earth can we expect the children we raise to be any more fortified than us against such life-denying influences?
It is hard to reach this conclusion against a backdrop of so much hard work by so many on behalf of children; so many policy papers, all aimed at the ends we all desire - a competent, cohesive society. But it seems to me that the conclusion is inescapable.
Fortunately, Scotland does have an honourable tradition of debate and engagement. We need to draw on that tradition now to rethink what we want for children. And that debate has to go way beyond the question of Scotland's economic power in the global economy. It would be gratifying, indeed, to think that we might give a UK lead on these crucial questions in terms rather different from those that have dominated public discourse in recent times.
During the trip we named our group, not entirely facetiously, "the Northern Lights". We didn't see them and we all know that a small group of nine can do very little on its own to cast new light on the landscape of childhood. But the image of a shimmering curtain of light illuminating the darkness is perhaps not a bad way to conceptualise the task facing us.
Rosemary Milne, chief executive, smilechildcare, 4/2 New Lairdship Yards, Edinburgh."

(I've copied and pasted it as the link wouldn't work after tomorrow unless you subscribe)

It picks up on something that I had been beginning to firm up in my own mind: the sadeness that we in the UK seem to be developing a society based on mistrust - with a follow-on consequence to how we allow children to live.

Our default is to "mistrust". Well, I'm glad that my own default is still to trust people. It makes for a much nicer life!

I'd actually started to think about it in relation to my work: that we are no longer trusted to get on with our jobs and are constantly monitored/measured/have to fiill in long forms to get the initiest bit of help/support. And I work in a realtively high powered sales job - where I used tob e far more ffective, becasue I was able to do the job (ie sell) rather than fill on forms says what I'm doing.

beatie · 15/09/2006 09:49

"It picks up on something that I had been beginning to firm up in my own mind: the sadeness that we in the UK seem to be developing a society based on mistrust - with a follow-on consequence to how we allow children to live."

I definitely agree with that. It's part of the problem. I'd blame the media for that.

I agree that children having certain freedoms is essential for their healthy development. I don't believe that simply opening our front doors and putting our children out to play is the one thing that will solve this problem alone. Our society is different to Norway for many other reasons and we need to look at those too.

Children need freedom to DO things but they also need freedom FROM things (too much academic pressure, too much pressure to look/act a certain way/too much presure to have certain things) Perhaps these pressures, like the fears and mistrust adults pass onto children, are fuelled by the media too.

Well, I'm far, far from expert on these matters, so I am just offering my POV and may be way off mark.

prettybird · 15/09/2006 10:00

.. actually Beatie, there was another feature in yesterday's Herald which was about the point you make about freedom from pressure and the responsibility of sdults in creating this unhealthy envoriment for kids.

The link is here We doom our children to a disaster-movie life - it'll only be avaialble probably today but might last over the weekend. I don't agree with everything she says, but she does make some iteresting points.

beatie · 15/09/2006 10:05

Thanks for the link. I'm just on my way out and will read it later.

joelallie · 15/09/2006 10:38

I think the problem stems from the fact that parents seem to think they, and only they, are responsible for their children and can appreciate them. Other people only have a part in their kids lives in exchange for money. Children should belong to everyone. They are societies investment ion to the future. If we don't beleive that how can we have good state education. Every adult is responsible for every child - if you see a child in dificulties or doing something wrong you act. If this was the mindset (as I beleive it was when I was a child and even more when my parents were) we wouldn't spend so much time fretting over giving our children the freedom to learn and grow without constantly watching over them. If we acted as if our whole community (community might = the street, the village, the estate) was a safe environment we wouldn't feel so determined to keep our sprogs locked safe and sound and sterile in our own houses.

divastrop · 15/09/2006 11:32

thats a good point joelallie(soz if i spelt that wrong) in 'my day' the local parkeeper,shopkeeper,policeman,even the lollipop man would tell kids off if they were mis-behaving.if u were being naughty outside someones house they would tell u off.nowadays,if somebody did that,the child would go running to mummy and daddy who would then go and 'have a word' with the terrible person who'd dared to tell their precious darling off!

i sat in ds2's nursery playground this morning and i couldnt believe how paranoid all the parents seem to be.all i heard was 'now come on darling,share the toys with chloe' and 'say sorry to callum,connor' over and over again,just cos kids (aged from 2-4) were fighting over toys or playing car crashes etc!i felt like saying 'fgs,let them get on with it,they're just kids!'

mcdonalds fries are just smash squished together in a chip-shape.

monkey · 15/09/2006 11:37

but it's got to the point that people don't act and intervene. There was a crappy 'watchdog' current affairs type programme on the other day & they got the actors to be 'in distress' in various locations, ie town centre, park & sea side. Heavily pregnant woman weeping & distressed, middle aged man head injury & staggering about & teenage girl. Basically no one bothered to help any of them for ages. Even mothers with pushchairs & old grannies ignored the distressed pg woman! The news team then asked them if thy'd noticed they were distressed/hurt & asked why they didn't help. & everybody said yes, they had seen the person but didn't help because

  • it's none of my business
  • you don't like to get involved these days, do you?
  • she might be a druggy My personal favourite -
  • we're only down here for the day (wtf???)

someone earlier mentioned Jamie Bulder - passer by saw him & didn't intervene.ok that's really extreme, but lots of everday examples of people behaving badly and people not challenging them.

Again, this is not the case here. I remember walking through quiet (almost deserted) cathedral square & a couple of lads (15/16?) dropped a bottle and it smashed (initself quite unusual) A middle aged woman called after them & told them off. Thier response? They apologised & went & picked it up & put it in the bin. I am sure in the average quiet Sunday morning town centre, the woman wouldn't have challenged them any more these days, and if she did, she'd get a mouthful of abuse. I know all my neighbours. I know all the kids & who lives where. I know if mine are out playing & has a problem any one of them will help mine, just as I help anyone elses. Again, it comes down to local, very local provision of play areas, so the kids have space to play right by where they live. And they can play with their friends down the street, and all the mums know them & are prepared to help. This should be achievable. The powers that be need to stop worrying about setting targets for infants & realise a playground nearby is of more value

joelallie · 15/09/2006 11:43

Monkey- the weird thing is that a lot of the things you say about where you live applies to my home too. I know all the parents and kids in the street where I live. But that isn't down to me, it's down to my kids who don't have my natural reticence and just make friends....I just follow where they lead. I wouldn't hesitate to help or tell off any of those children and I am fairly confident that my neighbours would do the same.

Until more people feel confident to be like this it won't change.

beatie · 15/09/2006 12:51

PB - I read that article and think it makes some very valid points. Thanks again for the link.

Redlorry75 · 15/09/2006 13:21

I think the article - on the first posting has some valid points. But it also fails to recognise social and economic changes which are forcing both parents to work in may cases, and so reducing the parental input some children get.

Although we both work luckily my DH and I manage to work in a good mix of him time, me time and family time with DD. He does loads of physical stuff with her, I do loads of homey stuff - such as cooking and yes the TV is often on in the back ground - but she's not afraid to switch it off when she's not interested and ask to do something like painting or playing in the garden.

If the governemnt could just take all the anti-social yobs off the streets and correctly deal with all those who would harm our children then perhaps a few more parents may actually feel like taking a walk to the park or going out to feed the ducks!

In addition if 'school targets' were actually measured by testing the teachers - not the children then perhaps our children would;nt feel so stressed out by al the tests they are asked to do which justify their teachers pay!

Sorry having a soapbox moment

riab · 16/09/2006 13:26

If the governemnt could just take all the anti-social yobs off the streets

but a an ex youth worker I can tell you that half the time the governements anti social yobs that the media love to scare us with are simply 12-15 yr olds with nothing to do.

Someone raised the issue of step families - again hardly a new phenomenon. the 'nuclear family' is an invention of the 1950's prior to the first world war families rarely had the 2 parents + 2-4 children ideal we romantisice about. Marriages may have ended in death (possibly in childbirh or in war) but step families, only children raised as orphans, half siblings etc were all common place.
As were slum tenements and people in the poorhouse.

The point of this ramble? not to underline the issue about romanbticsing the past but to ask - what exactly is it about modern life that WE MNetters think is damaging our children the most?

I personally think its parents who worry/ pressure their children too much.

Rumpel · 17/09/2006 14:46

Apologies if I upset anyone one with the working parents statement - it was unintentional. You have to remember we can only generalise with these arguments, as every case is individual. I realise that a lot of working parents work because they HAVE to, equally there are a lot of people who work because they want the lifestyle and the kids and aren't prepared to compromise. I also realise, that as females, our careers always take a nosedive as we are the ones who will ultimatley endure pregnancy and all that goes along with it, and in most, not all, cases be the ones on a career break to look after the kids. The thing is it is impossible to have everything you want in this life - life is about compromise in everything you do!

divastrop · 17/09/2006 16:30

good points riab.
it was the comment about step-families and relationship breakdowns being partly responsible for whats wrong in society that got to me.in the romantic-idealist view of the past,men and women stayed married till death did them part and raised thier children in the ideal environment.but few ppl knew what went on behind closed doors because prying into a married couples business wasnt the done thing.there may be more step-families etc nowadays but if that means there are less women(and men) or children living in abusive families then i don't see how that can be causing problems in society?

FloatingOnTheMed · 21/09/2006 10:22

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FloatingOnTheMed · 21/09/2006 10:27

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FloatingOnTheMed · 21/09/2006 10:28

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