Childhood 'poisoned' by modern life

[Enid]

junk food and no exercise is 'poisoning' childhood

Surely all these depressed/obese kids are an urban myth?

My take on it is that there have always been fat kids and stupid people, whats new?

Are the people that signed this letter living in a bubble of nostalgia?

Monkey, great posts.
It's so useful to hear about how things work in other countries - gives more confidence to those of us who feel like we are swimming against the stream in trying to give children more freedom.

" think this point says a lot more about our food culture (or lack of) It's the fact that we have to be consious of what we're feeding our children rather than just cooking and eating food we have grown up with. "

Yes Beattie...I agree. In the 70s when I was growing up you had to be quite well off and try really hard to eat a diet that was mostly convenience food. Most meals were meat and 2 veg type meals - not that exciting maybe but fairly balanced and healthy. Mum mad everything herself - not because it was better or healthier per se, but because it was cheaper. Crap was expensive back then

Monkey - that sounds wonderful. There are still some pioneering parents in the UK ready to give our kids some freedom - mine are lucky I think that they have that chance and lots of other kids to play with. My DS#1 spent about an hour in the park yesterday with his friends on his bike collecting conkers - came back hungry, muddy, full of fresh air and carrying a bag full of the damned things. That isn't the kind of activity most parents would organise - it was entirely spontaneous and thoroughly enjoyable. But how do you manage in your situation if you have to work? If kids come home for lunch as you say?

Our local cinema has a Saturday morning club. I think it's £2 per child. But we don't use it as I try and make the dds do Wholesome Outdoor Things instead.

My friends in the 70's had fried food and chips every night. And nearly everyone had crisps, choc biscuit and white bread in their packed lunch every day. it wasn't THAT healthy back in the 70s.

I was born in 1974. The telly was on all the time, burbling away in the background. I was known to watch the test card if nothing else was on. In the eighties, video games appeared, and I narrowly escaped RSI playing with pac-man. I played out in the garden when I wanted to, went roaming with my friend when I wanted to. My parents didn't seem to give a monkey's how much telly I watched, what volume of fresh air I had taken in, how much I had moved about that day. They just got on with life, instead of angsting about it. As for food; everything home-cooked in the seventies? Fruit and veg was around, but so were Vesta curries, Toast-toppers, oven chips, Angel Delight, powdered orange juice (wtf?),and nary a meal went by without the opening of a packet of Knorr casserole mix. I seem to remember that convenience food was trendy at the time and housewives fell on it in gratitude, if my mum and my friends' mums were anything to go by. It seems to me that these days feeling guilty and making parents feel guilty is a bit of a national pastime. Anything that - shock, horror - gives us a bit of peace or saves a bit of time is A Bad Thing. Strikes me that most of the people involved in writing that letter in the Telegraph are nearer grandparent than parent age. Not really a shock that people of one generation are criticising the child-rearing capabilities of the generation below. What's new? One thing I have learned is that if I nag my eight year old and 6 year old into playing outside they resist all the more and want to stare at screens. If I leave them to their own devices, over the course of a day they will have a bit of screen time, do some reading, do some drawing, play outside... I try not to turn it into a battlefield. I haven't even mentioned telly this week, and neither have they. As for roaming around unsupervised, there's nowhere for them to go as we live in the sticks near a 60mph road with no kids or park nearby, so they have each other and our garden and paddocks. But they hopefully will make it through childhood...I'm just saying,all kids have different freedoms and experiences and hobbies, but as long as they have loving parents and a decent diet everything else should come out in the wash, so can we all please relax and stop angsting? To be honest, if you are the sort of parent that worries about diet, exercise, screens, etc, then your kids will be fine anyway, because you care. If you're the sort that couldn't care less, they won't, and all the letters to the Telegraph in the world won't help.

no it's true. It's not all roses here. Luckily I'm a sahm, but for women to work here it is very difficult, & unusual full time. Childcare is expensive. There are places, childcare where kids go for lunch. But alos most people tend to live close to family & grandparents & aunties eg help out a LOT.

SHopping is also crap, lol. (recent tent moans about lusted after tent twice the price here)

Imagine Switzerland, imagine UK 40 years ago, maybe. shops in our towns till shut for lunch, nothing is ever open on a sunday apart from couple of weeks before Christmas. But then they are better with playgrounds etc. Thjey even have a playgroup that only meets in the wood, whatever the weather. Mott "There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes" lol.

slackstockmistress - perhaps you were a depressed child and didn't know it

Yes, there was crap food in the 70's but now crap food is cheap and people can have an abundance of it.

We used to have a chocolate bar and a packet of crisps and white bread every school lunchtime but that was it. My mum couldn't afford more than that.

As a parent now I could probably afford for my children to eat shop bought cakes, crisps and chocolate all day long - and it seems there are parents who do allow this.

I don't have any solutions... but I do ponder why other European countries haven't fallen into this trap.

Havn't read the whole thread but my twopence worht is this:
not enough freedom for kids
too much scaremongering about dangers in letting oyu rkids play out
parents (usually middle class) with imagination/ brain power going to waste and so spending too much time worrying about whether little francis will be able to land that palce at oxford if he hasn't learnt baby french at the age of 1

Generally I think too much anxiety and pressure - inlcuding the kind of worry that this letter may spark off for some mums is a bad thing. My mum is always saying ot me - just chill out - you parents nowadays read too many books/ magazine articles etc and get all wound up about it all. She laughed herself silly to realise that some people have enough time or can be bothered to find the time to spend an hour every day debating whether an organic diet will raise your childs IQ by a few points (an example only). She believes in a'get on and do it' attitude.

So having said that I'm off to get on and have my relaxing lunch while DS is asleep and then we're going to the park to eat mud, chase ducks and climb on/ fall off the slide.

slackstockmistress said it better than me!

Lost childhood? Nostalgic claptrap

beatie - I was a bit depressed sometimes, but other times I was happy, because life can't be perfect, whatever the decade. We can all only do our best, whether Jacqueline bloody Wilson thinks it comes up to the mark or not.

riab - you managed to say everything I wanted to say only much more concisely.I think I rambled on a bit

I want to move to Switzerland!!!

I would love to go back in time and 40 years sounds great!

I was born in 67 and yes there was vesta curries and other crap food but it was never in our house cos it was too expensive

My mum was a real whizz and was very imaginative with food and also made our clothes,curtains and bedding and she was a v young mum too.

I think one of the big changes today is we dont let children play out alone. There have always been dodgy people knocking about and I dont think there is much difference there. When we were kids a bloke in a mac (why did they always wear macs?!)asked us if we wanted to see some puppies. My mate said yes and i dragged her way and told her dad who give her a good hiding.

There are more cars on the side roads but again I dont think that makes a difference.

For me, its the other kids. There are some really nasty kids/teenagers out there whos heads are full of shoot em up bang em up and all the other crap the world throws at them.They are more dysfunctional families too (i work with them and they breed these kids. Thats why my dd will never play out on her own. I just think James Bulger and shudder

It doesnt help that i am close to it though, i know that. Only yesterday at work a woman told me how two 11 year olds had held her 8 year old son down (who also has learning difficulties) and forced grass into his mouth while he struggled to breath.When I interviewed the 11 year olds mum she said 'whats the problem they are only playing'

aghh

what a horrible story chocolate peanut.
come and move to Switzerland
It does have it's surreal moments. The dorrbell has just rang. I answer door with ds3 in my arms. He asks me, "Is no one there?". I naturally lookc onfused, so he repeats "Is no one there? I wanted to speak with Mrs...." "But I am Mrs :::" "Oh" ??????

Can't say I want to move to Switzerland. It was 1971 when Women got the vote there. here .

Come on someone say something good about being a child today. What do they have that is better than what we had.

I've been reading this with interest. Don't you think that a lot of lack parenting skills these days is due to the fact that parents want to be their children's friend, rather than a parent? I am just about to become a parent, however, I see friends who have LO's who don't want their child to dislike them at all so discipline goes out the window - it's just too difficult and time consuming and too much arguing etc.
As for the nutrition thing - I think people in general are much fatter than years ago. It stands to reason that if you grow up in a family who are ill-educated with regards to nutrition, then you too will, generally speaking, be unaware of healthy versus unhealthy foods. You have to remember that what one family class as 'normal' is completely abnormal for another. Some people just don't have the skills or knowledge to spend creative time with their kids or nourish their children's imagination and social skills. It's not always their fault, it is life perpetuating circumstances. The more educated you are, whether it's by your own thirst for knowledge or from structured academia, then the better tools you have to teach your own kids. However, I have to point out that sometimes I think career orientated people have kids as they feel they 'ought' to and then have nannies/childcare look after them 24/7. Often to assuage the guilt of not being there physcially and emotionally for their kids, they spoil them rotten with material things - in my opinion nothing compares to time and love.
As far as paodophiles go - they have always been around, in fact most cases of sexual abuse to children, are carried out by relatives or friends, not the mysterious bogey man! It amazes me, where I live as most of the children are given lifts to school, some only live 300 yards from the school! The parents double park everywhere, the kids run out from between the cars - it's mad - completely dangerous. Then they let their kids out until 10pm at night playing in the streets!! Doesn't make sense. One of my friends (a teacher) actually got ran over by a Mum on the school run! It seems to cause more harm than good. The thing is where I live you couldn't pass wind without someone knowing about it!
I've taught in both schools and colleges and I feel that there is a lot of anger in children these days. Some of the poor behaviour is definitley due to poor nutrition, however, a lot of it is due to the fact that kids grow up so quickly but don't possess the social skills or complete facts to deal with life effectively. They all know what sex is, most have even experienced it, but they don't know the facts about it. They don't know what their sexual
organs really do , how or why to protect themselves effectively or the emotional complications involved. Add booze into the equation and it all goes completely pear
shaped! How about the messiness of broken families too? How hard is it for some of these kids to adjust to new step families? This creates lots of anger that they just don't know how to deal with. I think it is important that we give our children the most love, the most honesty, the best nutrition both physcially and emotionally, and the best skills that we are able in order that they can survive life's trials as independent human beings. None of us wants to see our children suffer, however, you can't go through life without pain - it is how you learn as a human being. I think I may have gone off on a tangent here - I should have put up my soap box - sorry

Rumpel

I totally agree with 99% of what you say.

Apart from the bit about working Mum's using 24/7 chilcare - lay off will you! We working Mum's work because we have to i.e. have no choice ecconomically. I wish I had the choice to not work. Besides, I suspect that a lot of poor parenting skills come from parents who do not/will not work IMO i.e. the workless. Sitting on your butt all day watching Ophra doesn't make you a good parent. Several sahm's I know use childcare so they can spend all day in the gym!! A lot of us working Mum's are actually, or at least try very hard to be, good parents to our children, thank you very much! Please don't blame us hard working Mum's for all the world's ills; we get enough of that misogynistic crap from the Daily Mail.

Right, now I'll get down off my soapbox. Apart from that little blip, I thought you made some very insightful points actually

o...k.firstly,i dont know where all this about conveinience food being cheap comes from,all i know is i used to buy it cos im a crap cook and need food to come in boxes with instructions(i have always made sure the fruit bowl is full though!),but since dp moved in(he can cook)and started cooking 'real' food,my shopping bill has gone down by half.
i think the media is to blame for alot of problems in our society.parents werent scared to let their kids out to play 30 yrs ago cos the newspapers didnt print anxiety-inducing headlines every other day about pedo's etc.and families could afford to live on one person's wage so mothers who wanted to stay at home weren't forced to work.i think mothers are expected to be super-human,hold down a job,keep the house in perfect order,and spend quality time being a perfect parent.
rumpel,what have u got against step-families?

my older 2 kids play out sometimes(they are 8.5 and 7.5)and go to the library round the corner and sit and read etc.i also take them to the park etc at the weekends when its nice.sometimes they all(incl ds2 who is 3) run around the house after each other,play fight etc and sometimes they watch tv or go on the computer.

i grew up in the 80's and i distinctly remember being fed super noodles and smash on a regular basis!

Diva - thanks for your support for working Mums

I grew up on beefburgers and chips and my kids (generally) eat much healthier food than I did, just because people are more aware now.

I agree about convenience foods too - I find ready meals far more expensive than the raw ingredients.

Did anybody here watch that series of t.v. progs about putting modern teenagers back to school in a certain era? I remember the one where they had to spend a month being at a 50's style boarding school, everything was authentic apart from the fact that they didn't get caned.
It was very interesting to watch them transform from surly, self opinionated and arogant teenagers to CHILDREN. They played ganes, ran about, had more energy, ate better food, they looked like children as opposed to silly tarts (the girls).
I think society cuts our children far too much slack. It lets them get away with blue murder. It cossets and pampers them. gives them ridiculous exam results, tells them they can do whatever they want and of course they grow up believing they should have whatever they want. They seem unable to derive pleasure from simple pleasures.
They are never sated. My eldest has friends in his class who seem absolutely bored with life already. Everything is beneath them and nothing is good enough.

In my opnion it all started going going wrong in the 60's and 70's when attitudes to childrearing and to children fell under the influence of all those hippy ideals.
Now we believe it is wrong to smack or basically repremand our children at all.
We are creating fat, arogant monsters and I think the will be hell to pay.
There, that feels better

I grew up on Vesta packet meals, findus crispy pancakes and other such delights!!

Mmmmmm - Findus pancakes. We had those weekly too. I kind of liked them

I don't agree about the hippy 60s and 70s to be to blame. My 1970s childhood and my DHs 1960s childhood involved us fearing our parents and being over-disciplined. In contrast, the hippy-offspring I have come to know in adult life are much more functional well-rounded adults. Possibly because they didn't have a TV and grew up eating lentils and sitting around the table talking about politics and women's rights.

Well, maybe not for that reason exactly. If only it was that easy

that was it-crispy pancakes and super noodles!

dd1 is 7 1/2 but tall for her age and in size 10-11 clothes,she wants to wear pretty dresses but all they do in her size are denim skirts and slogan t-shirts(saying 'am i bovvered?' and other such delights).
kids should be allowed to be kids.

I used to have to go to my aunty's after school every night cos my mum worked. Every night without fail - bread and jam.
I still to this day cannot eat jam

Was it vesta too that made those crispy noodles, that you deep-fries and they went a bit like quaver-worms. hmm lovely.

I hated chips as a kid. still remember grandad moaning at me for being the oly kids in the country who hated chips.
. Go for it kittywits, lol. your post made me laugh. sadly agree with a lot of it. dunno about the 1970's tho. I definitely wasn't raised under any hippy ideals, more's the pity.

I wasn't raised as a hippy, although I do remeber my teachers at infants school wering REALLY short, flared mini skirts, they had really long hair and played the guitar alot!! But I did endure the teaching ideologies that it was wrong to really 'teach' childen much, that they should take more control of their own learning. WTF I was a little kid!!! . We weren't taught to spell for example and that really annoys me.