Childhood 'poisoned' by modern life

[Enid]

junk food and no exercise is 'poisoning' childhood

Surely all these depressed/obese kids are an urban myth?

My take on it is that there have always been fat kids and stupid people, whats new?

Are the people that signed this letter living in a bubble of nostalgia?

and on the subject of 'freedom'

its not as easy as let them be free, let them go play alone,

theres so many weirdos out there,

isnt it always the kids roaming free in the fields and playing in the woods that get abducted, then everyone says 'well why were they in the woods alone in the first place??'

we have to think about safety as well as freedom, sad but true!

... yes, but kittylette, the point that many of us have made here is that the risk from "wierdos" is tiny - it is only our perception of the risk that has changed.

And are we doing our children harm by not giving them freedom to explore becasue of some infentissimal risk of something that might happen?

"isnt it always the kids roaming free in the fields and playing in the woods that get abducted, then everyone says 'well why were they in the woods alone in the first place??' "

No, when kids are abducted it's usually by a member of their own family.
When kids are abducted and killed it's in all kinds of situations - eg Jamie Bulger in a shopping centre. And I don't remember anyone judging the parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman for allowing their girls out of the house.

Kittylette - if I'm honest I totally agree with you.

We have a mega mortgage and are totally skint most of the time and often cut down on other stuff to buy decent food etc. We're not perfect, and I'm not a great cook, but at least try and ensure the diet is balanced rather than just all the things which are easy or which the kids ask for (i.e. junk). Its just as easy and cheap to buy and slice a cucumber as it is to open a pack of mars bars!! I agree its a matter of priorities a lot of the time.

...and I work f/t and still manage to find the time to make proper food/proper pack lunches etc rather than stuffing them with junk food.

Ditto TV/computers etc - its up to the parents to limit the watching time and make sure their kids get off their butts and do other things.

Martianbishop - excellent posts. I completely agree and you've put into words what I was attempting to say.

ok, the risk IS tiny from abduction,

but i couldnt allow my kids to roam the streets, and where i live, central manchester, theres no fields, woods to roam,

if i let my boys out when theyre older, what exactly would they do? hang about on street corners,

what we WILL do as the grow (only 20 months & 12 weeks now) we will go each sunday for a hike, out door walk - they can walk on ahead - but i will be there,

i could not bear not knowing where my kids are,

they can experience freedom as much as they want when they reach adulthood, go travel the world, visit exotic countries,

but in the near future they will ride theyre bikes, build their forts, make tyre swings with me or their dad in close proximity

and i dont think theyll be missing out,

rather the opposite, theyll grow up within a close loving family unit, who enjoys activities together,

not be allowed to wander, and get into mischief and dangerous situations as i did when younger,

and to be completely honest, is it really like the good old days, if we allow out children to be 'free' do you really believe they will go build a fort? or will they do something theyre not suppost to?

im not saying children are bad, but times change and what seemed fun to us when younger may just seem 'boring;' to the PSP iPOD generation IYKWIM

I helped with swimming classes at my DD's school yesterday (year 1) and I was shocked at how many of these 5-6 year olds were overweight. At least half the class and, unlike previous posters, I don't think it's anything to do with class or money. This is a very mixed school with intakes from every walk of life.

Haven't read whole post but do think the activities thing levels out with age. We did lots when they were young but now down to a few real favourites (unfortunately the expensive ones like dancing, piano and horse riding...). Saw this on Newsnight and they showed the 'good old days' as being like the Railway Children, running wild all over the tracks etc. Here the modern equivalent is a craze for running across a busy dual carridgeway and taking pictures of this on mobiles - think I would rather give my kids the option of 'organised' activities or Playstations, thank you.

Perhaps parents with clinically obese children (really extreme cases - not puppyfat) should be prosicuted for neglect?

perhaps even abuse,

as neglect is failing to do something, but abuse is continuing to do something to a child even though it is against the childs best intersts?

and perhaps the goverment could provide, instead of full benefits some 'fresh food vouchers' that can only be redeemed against fruit, veg and othe rnon-junk foods?

kittylette - my kids 'roam free' as you put it and they don't do anything untoward - unless you call riding bikes and kicking a football in the park untoward? I am aware of what they do because there are plenty of kids from our street with them usually and it gets back to the parents very quickly if anything is happening that shouldn't. And I pop over the park regularly to see how it's going. The whole point isn't physical freedom alone, it's freedom from adult supervision some of the time.

When mine were tiny I felt the same as you - no way would they ever be out of my sight! But their needs change as they get older and you have to adapt to them. The first few time I let my eldest play outside I sat on the front wall and watched him - it took a while before I had the guts to take my eyes off him for a moment. When his sister was old enough it was easier because DS#1 was there to keep an eye. You have to trust them to a certain extent - trust them to behave and keep themselves safe, but also to trust them to look out for each other. And my experience is that they do. It's part of being in a community children are as much part of a community as adults are.

Would also like to add that we do all the weekend things that you mention. But my 9 yr old would much prefer to be with his friends doing his thing.

Kittylette - we'll just have to agree to differ! But that's the joy of Mumsnet - we all ahve different parenting strategies!

My own view is that we should be letting our children, little by little, experience thieir own sense of independence, so that they have the skills to go out and explore the world when they are adults - so that they have learnt to judge danger/get out of sticky situations (or better still avoid them)/grasp new experiences with both hands.

Hence me starting very gently with an unspervised (ish) trip to the post box for ds when he was nearly 6.

I was travelling unaccompnaied to the South of France to see my penfriend (plane, transfer at Heathorw, then train and taxi across Paris - minus luggage as it hadn't made the transfer at heathrow and then picked up at the station in Avignon) at 16. I'm sure I wouldn't have had the confidence to do that if I hadn't had plenty of opportunity to do things for myslef before then.

I was then off to Uni the following year: away from home - but perhaps less initmidating for me than for others (older than me) becasue I had already had the chance to be independent

the earliest my boys will go out (secretly supervised at first ) is 10,

only to prepare them for the bus trip to high school at 11

Oooh - have to say that I wouldn't let Ds (6) out to post box on his own, which is round the corner, across one residential road. I could watch from a distance , but I wouldn't want him to go alone anyway for a few years yet, so no point in getting him ready at this early stage.

Agree with Kittylette that I wouldn't contemplate it until he's 9 or 10. I'm not in any hurry for him and DD to grow up fast. I think they can learn independance in good time, but not at 6.

I'm fascinated by this thread - I do get bothered by lack of activity (dd eats the right sort of stuff most of the time and I think the odd times she doesn't won't hurt her if she's active), as dd loves her telly. I used to think people who put tellies in a fancy cabinet were posers, but I'm thinking of doing it too, as it's a lot easier to ignore if you can't actually see it. I also take care to make sure she's without me some of each day - ideally, though, I get a friend of hers round/send her to someone else's house - and they generally either play in the garden or with toys. At 4, I think she's too young to be technically by herself, but I am quite good at ignoring most of the noises, just reassuring myself now and then that all is well. I just stop breathing at the thought of her going out by herself at the moment and dh is the same (this is probably extreme: we had a lot of trouble getting her!) and we think she'll probably make her first trip to the corner shop when she's about 8. Part of the trouble is traffic - I do think more cars are on the road and greater frustration is vented on local streets by cars trying to escape congestion on the busier roads. I played in the road with the other kids when I was little, making mud pies with yew berries in the because they were pretty and the like, but I had one of those mums that knew half of South London and we knew all those kids: my experience now is that most parents are not one whit concerend with letting their kid have a social opportunity. I now have a list of those that are happy to take part, though most will prefer I don't call them often, so I've made teh list quite long. It's taken quite a while to do it though . My mum was sometimes labelled neglectful, because I played out on my bike on my own so much - the view was she had too many kids - but I was happy like that, despite being a very bookish child otherwise. Nothing changed there then. DD loves stories, telly, going to the park, swimming, Cbeebies website games, ballet, all fairly evenly. I think that's about right! It can be hard not to worry if other parents are putting their kids into one or other class, etc, that you're not disadvantaging yours - but I try to be sane about it. She'll be starting school on Monday, so I guess I have lots to learn....! Sorry, bit of an epic, I'll stop now!

I think one thing that astonishes me is how expensive physical pursuits are in this country. For our family of 4 to go swimming costs nearly £10 a time. I belong to a gym which is a council run leaisure centre and it's not much less per month than private gyms.

I don't know where families on lower incomes are supposed to go to encourage their children to become involved in a sport. Our country appears to be lacking in an outdoor/indoor activities culture in school and out of school (in comparison to other countries).

Yes, I agree with you Beatie - it can be unbelievably expensive to do anything now. I do remember going swimming and even to the odd stately home when I was a kid and I just don't know how my parents found the money if it cost as much then.

Getting back to the start of this thread, I do think that we're developing a culture of looking for problems where, if we just left well alone, it would often sort itself out. On the one hand, we seem to expect kids to behave like little adults and on the other, we seem to have very low expectations of their ability to work things out for themselves. Depression? I think anyone who spends too much time either being over-organised or gazing at a pc rather than moving around would have a tendency to develop it at any age.

In Glasgow all children, up to the age of 18 get to go swimming free. SO fur a family of 4, it would just cost the price of two adults - from memory £2.10 each.

Museums are also free - Kelvingrove Museum is the most visited museum outside of London and is fantastic. There are aslo loads of other really good museums.

Another reason why my council tax is so high - but I don't begrudge it! (even if I do begrudge the hangers on in the weatlhy outlying suburbs). But that's a whole other topic!

Most of the stuff we do outdoors is free too - museum visits, walks to library, walks with picnics, lots of time in local playgrounds. I don't think you neccessrily need to do activities which cost money for children to get some excercise.

I do feel the schools should provide more excercise though. Thankfully our school does send children to play outside in virtually all weathers, but they only get one PE session a week and often that is cancelled due to something more "important" overtaking it. I think they should get at least 30 minutes structured excercise a day at school and spend less time sitting in assemblies; of which our school has three per. week! PE is great fun and teaches all sorts of skills; team skills, co-ordination etc.

It's get active day today interestingly enough. We have PE twice a week, and wake and shake every day. The children also all get given a piece of fruit everyday in our school.

I think everyone is getting too nostalgic about this fantastic freedom we supposedly had in our youth. I lived in the country, played outside all the time, went big cycling trips etc with my pals. I also nearly drowned and was nearly abducted twice, this only being averted by a friendly adult I knew who coincidentally happened to be around.
There is no way I would ever give my children the amount of freedom I had - they're not going to thank me for giving them lots of unsupervised playing outside if they're attacked and have lots of psychological problems (or worse) as a result

Panic pants - our school does fruit too,
Wake and shake sounds like what I need when I get to work in the mornings

Tartan Teddy - agree with you totally - I didn't get nearly abducted but loads of my friends got flashed at or groped, in parks etc. It just wasn't reported in those days. I go to parks and playgrounds with my kids, the idea of sending them off alone is as negligent as sticking them in front of a TV/PC for hours IMHO

I saw them talking about htis on Newsnight last night and what I couldn't help thinking was how much time adults spend at a screen. I spend 8hrs in work looking at one and then TV in the evenings for about 2 hrs maybe 3 and a bit of time here. I'm sure I am not alone. Is it any wonder kids think it is the most natural thing to live your life through a screen.

Try swimming in Aviemore, Scotland. I think it was £30 - yes £30 - for a family of 4. Incredible. Mind you, there are lots of lakes to swim in for free, but they are bloody cold.