I despair at Israel sometimes

[AndHarry]

Well, often really. I have family out there who have a bomb shelter in their house and have had to evacuate for weeks at a time so I have great sympathy for ordinary Israelis trying to go about their lives. What happened to 3 sch

And yes, all deaths are horrible, but Al Jazeera has now reported that most of those killed in Gaza are combat aged males, not women and children.
www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/15/watchdog-al-jazeeras-gaza-fatalities-data-indicates-israel-killed-mostly-combatant-age-males-not-women-or-children/

We all feel this intense anger, hatred and helplessness. Imagine how the Palestinians must feel This genocide is visited upon them every 2 years. I can't help but feel that children are being deliberately targeted ,a plan to get rid of "little snakes". Otherwise how is such a sophisticated military machine getting it wrong so often?

Are you actually reading the link provided? Al Jazeera have reported most of those killed are combat aged males not women and children.

I feel desperately sad for the innocents caught up in this. War is brutal. I want Hamas to stop firing rockets like Israel has as the UN have asked fir a cease fire to begin talks. Hamas are continuing to fire rockets into tel aviv despite Israel stopping.

That is not an Al Jazeera link. It's the interpretation of their reporting by a pro-Israeli site.

Here are the names of all the dead, and their ages.

www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/gaza-under-seige-naming-dead-2014710105846549528.html

Karen you are completely deluded. Saying Hamas need to comply with the UN and that the death of those boys is 'awful. All war is awful'. Israel agreed a ceasefire without Hamas even being present. As Jon snow said on C4 tonight when will Israel find the courage to talk directly to Hamas?

It is Israel which is breaching every facet of international law and the Geneva convention. How can you defend Israel ? I'm genuinely curious to know more of the mentality of apologists.

The data is from Al Jazeera.

This is a new cease fire from the UN.

I am not deluded. It is not as simple as you think.

Kareninsgirl won't you consider an alternative attitude? I've taken the liberty of editing your statement, forgive me:

"There will never be peace with the ANC as they are a terrorist group. Would you expect any other country to deal with a terrorist organisation who was sworn to their destruction? The answer is not as simple as you think.

The Afrikaners only have one state to call their own in the whole world. If it all goes tits up again for the Afrikaners, they have nowhere to flee to.

Afrikaners were actually living in South Africa nearly 400 years ago. Borders were won as part of wars - just like anywhere else.

I do not condone killing on either side but if the Afrikaners do not show strength they will be destroyed."

All of this was said about the Afrikaners. In the end it just didn't work. It made things worse. For the very reasons you point out, Israelis, like the Afrikaners, simply must find a way of living with the Palestinians and vice versa.

The constant calls for Hamas to stop firing rockets are getting nowhere - we can debate why this is but the reality is Israel is stuck, as is Palestine. The hatred and polarisation is only increasing. When something isn't working, a new approach is needed. I think organisations like Jewish voices deserve attention.

Indeed, I would love that to happen Wordsworth. But it does take both sides to put down their weapons and talk. One side alone does not work.

KareninsGirl Just take a look at Netanyahu's official Facebook page. To be completely honest, the man is an out-and-out nutter. From what he si saying, I seriously doubt Israel have stuck to the ceasefire agreement.

Hamas are using crude rockets to defend themselves from the people who took their country off of them, put them into refugee camps, and have left them to live mostly in poverty, making each day as difficult as possible through the use of checkpoints and not allowing them into certain parts of the country just for being Palestinian. Israel has an advanced army and air force, and is the only country in the Middle East which has, beyond a doubt, a full arsenal of nuclear weapons.

The last I saw in the news, many Israels were sitting outside, cheering and applauding as rockets were fired at Gaza. I'm not condemning every Israeli, as I know this doesn't represent all of them, but the ones who were doing that are sick, twisted individuals. I would say the same for any Palestinian cheering as rockets were fired at Israel.

Netanyahu and his government are war criminals and need to be tried as such. If they are indeed innocent, then no need to worry as the courts would be able to find that out. I sincerely doubt they'd get away Scot free though.

I'm glad to see that so many people on MN, as well as countless countries around the world, have posted, protested and marched in solidarity with Gaza. Maybe we can eventually push our leaders to take action against the Israeli siege of Gaza.

Ah sorry! Factual correction - I think that Lucas Koerner clip was actually from some time ago. It looks like it's now been edited out of the Guardian newspaper article. It wasn't today at all.

Karenin please don't tell me it's not as simple as I think. I've been following the issue for many years and have read a great deal about it. I've just drawn a different conclusion to you, as have many others.

You seriously cannot support Hamas who, when 'elected' in 2009,hung and tortured many of their opponents, mostly Fatah and journalists.

I am appalled that anyone is defending Israel's actions. Absolutely appalled.

Winky can you seriously support Israel who have murdered thousands of palestinians including those 4 boys today?

Pro Israel supporter's will always argue til they are blue in the face that their reasoning is the only logical answer to the atrocities Israel as a collective commit. Maybe when Netanyahu's children are killed or shredded to pieces by shrapnel will he feel an ounce of pain. Until then shell away Israel. A day will come when you answer for these crimes. And the day of judgement will leave u nowhere to cower.

I am sorry but in the face of such disgusting war crimes, Israel apologists rhetoric sickens me.

The world is sickened by Israel's murderous bombing of children - 4 at the beach being most recent. Tell me, what was the target there? It was obvious they were children. There were journalists watching it all happen. The politicians are also disgusting for not uttering a word. Thankfully, the journalists are showing us the truth. Here is first hand account from Guardian :

Witness to a shelling: first-hand account of deadly strike on Gaza port

The first projectile hit the sea wall of Gaza City's little harbour just after four o'clock. As the smoke from the explosion thinned, four figures could be seen running, ragged silhouettes, legs pumping furiously along the wall. Even from a distance of 200 metres, it was obvious that three of them were children.

Jumping off the harbour wall, they turned on to the beach, attempting to cross the short distance to the safety of the Al-Deira hotel, base for many of the journalists covering the Gaza conflict.

They waved and shouted at the watching journalists as they passed a little collection of brightly coloured beach tents, used by bathers in peacetime.

It was there that the second shell hit the beach, those firing apparently adjusting their fire to target the fleeing survivors. As it exploded, journalists standing by the terrace wall shouted: "They are only children."

In the space of 40 seconds, four boys who had been playing hide and seek among fishermen's shacks on the wall were dead. They were aged between seven and 11; two were named Mohammad, one Zakaria and the youngest Ahed. All were members of the extended Bakr family.

Full article www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account

Further in the article, the aunt of the dead children said: They killed my nephew. Who does that? Who fires on children?"

Answer to that question: Big and strong nuclear power Israel of course.
We all know that Israel has form for shooting, bombing and killing children. To all Israeli apologists, how do you even begin to justify such sickening dehumanisation of little children? You know, the bodies were so charred that they wouldnt show it on the mainstream news. Sickening cruelty.

winky oh the irony - pro-Israelis sounding incredulous at support for Hamas for 'killing and torturing opponents', when Israel does the same to those very people on a much bigger scale, not sparing children and the disabled either.

How has Israel managed to brainwash so many of its citizens?

I can't sleep. I have three sons and the thought of them dying fills me with dread. Yet that feeling is how I feel about all the innocent children being targeted. When will the world condemn these crimes? It is so unfair. No leader, government or humanitarian group ever holds Israel to account. When will this pain end for the people of Gaza?

Today I saw one of the most heartbreaking images I've ever seen. A father crying to his toddler to wake up. The little angel in the picture was lifeless and covered in blood, half his head had been blown of by an Israeli warplane in Gaza on the 11th July. As I looked at the image I thought of my little boy whose a similar age. I can't even begin to imagine the pain the father must be feeling at being so helpless in protecting his little boy. what crime has this toddler committed that he has been murdered in such a horrific way. How do you protect your children when they are being murdered by a government which believes it is above any international law. There is no justice for the Palestinians. who does this father who has lost his little angel in the most horrific way turn to for help. Who will hold the Israeli government to account for the murder of this little boy and all the other innocent lives being taken daily. The international response would have been so different had this been an Israeli father mourning the loss of his son. No father should have to go through this pain. I will never forget this picture and the pain on this fathers face.

Today I saw one of the most heartbreaking images I've ever seen. A father crying to his toddler to wake up. The little angel in the picture was lifeless and covered in blood, half his head had been blown of by an Israeli warplane in Gaza on the 11th July. As I looked at the image I thought of my little boy whose a similar age. I can't even begin to imagine the pain the father must be feeling at being so helpless in protecting his little boy. what crime has this toddler committed that he has been murdered in such a horrific way. How do you protect your children when they are being murdered by a government which believes it is above any international law. There is no justice for the Palestinians. who does this father who has lost his little angel in the most horrific way turn to for help. Who will hold the Israeli government to account for the murder of this little boy and all the other innocent lives being taken daily. The international response would have been so different had this been an Israeli father mourning the loss of his son. No father should have to go through this pain. I will never forget this picture and the pain on this fathers face.

Yruapita that account is heartbreaking from the guardian , I despair at the world we live in, how does Israel get away with so much terrorism. It's locked up the Palestinians in the most densely populated place in the world , oppressed them so much and them wonders why they fight back. you can only oppress people for so long.

I saw a photo of one of the boys lying dead on the beach. His legs twisted, almost torn from his upper body.

He was only a little boy.

How is this right? I dare anyone to justify his death.

I haven't read the entire thread, but am doing so with great interest. I am too young to have ever understood the conflict and it's only the current exchange of missiles that's made me stop and think. I'm trying not to form an opinion without being more informed but I'm struggling to see how more of the blame is not laid at the door of the US/UK/UN.

Who said I support Israel? Did I? Nope. Dumb jumping to conclusions again.

I do find the blinkered support for Hamas irritating though.

Hamas are fucking bastards. And if they and most of the other Arab states could kill all Jews, they would. Damn right they would.

The Palestinian people aside from Hamas however, they are innocent in this horrific action by the mad man Bibi.