Call for fertility ban for obese or too thin

[Joolstoo]

On the NHS -
But if you smoke or are gay you're safe

discuss

is it discriminatory or sensible?

what? a rectal prolapse can lead to infection, mrs. i don't see where that really compares.

FWIW, my father was turned down for heart surgery until he STOPPED smoking. this was in the US. this man had out of control hypertension - even w/meds it was out of hand - and a history of heart attack, but carried on smoking.

he had to stop or die.

people get turned down all the time for operations and treatment b/c their weight or habits - smoking, excessive drink/drug use - make it dangerous to treat them or the treatment would be ineffective to improve their condition.

there's nothing new in that.

Common causes of subfertility for all those who are not aware:-

blocked/damaged fallopian tubes
pelvic inflammatory disease
endometriosis
failure of ovulation
fibroids
failure of sperm production
low mobility abnormalities
antibody problems

You missed the most common - PCOS

though I suppose that would come under failure of ovulation...

I think equating IVF treatment with facelifts is going a bit far, expat.

I don't agree with excluding people from treatment on the basis of their weight. It has nasty judgemental overtones and is the thin end of the wedge IMHO.

Personally I agree that the NHS should make sensible choices when offering IVF. This should include weight, smoking etc that will have an effect on the possible sucess rate of IVF. Obviously there are some cases where people are naturally thin, or fat! And I do think frame has a lot to do with this. I am at the opposite scale in that to get my body into the desired range according to BMI I should weigh a max of 10st 1 (or something) On me this would be between a size 10 and 12. At the moment I am 10st 11lbs and have a BMI of over 25 at 26.7 therefore I am fat! I am a size 12 in most clothes, a 14 in 'skinny' shops I am NOT FAT!! For a BMI of 29+ I would be 12stone ish. At this weight I was a size 14 (16 in some shops). BTW My mum at 5'7" weighs approx 9st 4lbs, she measures larger tan me, I am 4" shrter and a stone 1/2 heavier - Go figure!!

I would like to set less strict 'cut offs' more guidelines where natual 'light' can be treated and natural 'heavy boned' people like me.

This is a very interesting thread and I particularly think that suejonez posts are interesting as she has the most personal experience of being in the situation affected by these guidelines.

I think that the guidelines are proposed because the clinical effectiveness of the treatment is significantly reduced if you are obese or underweight. I agree that bmi is probably too crude a tool to use for this assessment but the idea behind them is a sensible one.

Statistically, Greenie, IVF doesn't work as effectively in people over a certain BMI, as suejonez, who was in this situation, points out as well.

This is socialised medicine.

You've got people unable to get joint replacements, making them unable to work or even exist w/o incredible pain. You've got cancer patients who face shortened lifespans b/c their treatment is based on a postcode lottery. You've got babies who die b/c the jab to save their life was considered too expensive.

But somehow the money to help people reproduce w/o their doing their best to get themselves into peak form for it is supposed to just be magicked up?

Tell me how this is supposed to happen, someone?

B/c every penny I pay means something to me, as to many.

Well said Expat

Look guys I get very confused on this issue

The hospital caused my infertility during my second pregnancy

They offered IVF to sort it out

DH & I declined as we had our "baby" and felt that in our circumstances accepting what we had was appropriate

But I then went on to have a bladder repair - in no way was my incontinence life threatening

Dammed uncomfortable, occasionally painful - somewhat embarrassing

But if the NHS only fixed life threatening stuff - I'd be sitting her wearing a nappy I apid for myself.....rather than having a draw ful of reusable pads (that I can't bring myself to throw away) upstairs in case my op fails.

If it fails should I be allowed to have it redone on the NHS - it is still not life threatening and the money it costs could be used to save someones life?

This topic confuses the out of me

Is this a recommendation or something that is actually going to happen? It seems a bit pointless for somebody to start IVF treatment, be pumped full of drugs and go through all the stress involved if they are not in the optimum condition for conceiving. There is more to medical treatment than just taking pills. Regardless of whether IVF is provided on the NHS, most people can only face going through a limited number of cycles (for emotional reasons if nothing else), and it seems silly to reduce chances by being over or under weight if this is a problem that can be resolved.

I would hope that people whose weight problems were connected to their fertility problems would still be allowed treatment, as this is really a very different situation.

Should infertility be treated on the NHS? YES, YES, YES, YES. I know there are always difficult decisions to be made about where to spend money, but as others have pointed out, there are plenty of non-life threatening conditions that are treated on the NHS.

i havent read the whole thread but i dont neccesarily think it is right but they should definately include smokers in the ban. there are sometimes genetic/illness or hormone related reasons that a person is overweight, and although weight can have an impact on conception sometimes it is not a persons choice to be overweight, or under for that matter. it is however a persons choice to smoke and smoking harms the developing feotus and the child when they are born. It is well known that smoking can affect conception and if people cant be arsed to give up smoking to TTC naturally before needing IVF then why should they get IVF treatment on the NHS while they are still smoking as this will affect the chances of conception happening also. smoking is a lifestyle choice and the majority of people who need IVF on the NHS have probably been TTC for many years and have done just about everything to try to do it naturally, yet people who cant even be bothered to give up such a disgusting and harmful habit as smoking are basically taking money away from\people who genuinly need IVF. its not as if there is not help to give up smoking, there is.

Yes i am very anti smoking, i hate it
Yes i may piss some people off with such strong views on the subject, i personally think it should be banned full stop, everywhere, no fags sold etc, but thats another story.

Do i care if people dont like my views on it, NO

rant over