Derby toddler suspicious incident

[Wishfulmakeupping]

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/CCTV/story-21075947-detail/story.html
Just saw this on the news

I think he's clearly with the mum. He's very close to her.

I found a lost child in Animal Kingdom once and just crouched down where they were to talk to them, while scanning around for a parent. He just immediately redirects the child to go another way. Very suspicious.

That's righjt Curious she's only feet away! I also found a lost child in the street once and I spoke to him...stayed near him and said "Lets' see if we can see your Mummy" and he stopped and looked up and down the road with me...we never moved from the area...why would we?

The thing is, there is a woman with a pram near by but she has her back to him and is walking away. I would assume that she wasn't with him also.

I'm with Tobago on this - the toddler seemed to about to go past the shop, then change its mind and go into the shop...he wouldn't know the toddler was necessarily following its mother - she didn't appear to turn round etc to check he was following her into the shop ...(which I find a bit odd - but then I guess if when my eldest was toddler and playing up I would pretend to ignore her...and would have glanced back to make sure she was still following at the time the mother did)

You really do need the full picture to make a decision ... from the man's perspective too - who may well have been trying to do a good turn - may have thought toddler should have been was with another mother talking outside the next shop etc...
(Actually reminds of the famous 'see the whole picture' Guardian adverts)

I found a child in Ikea and after looking around for a parent trying to find a toddler I took him to a member of staff so that they could put out a tannoy message.

It's all about context. What was going on in the couple of minutes beforehand -- where was the toddler in relation to the mother? If toddler had been wandering back and forth and not interacting with the mother then it wouldn't be obvious that they were together. And what's off to the right where the man goes to take the child? If there's an information desk or security point then it casts a different light on events from if there isn't.

I think by itself this clip is worrying enough to warrant further investigation, but not enough to draw firm conclusions.

Looks very worrying.

To me it seems that the toddler was right next to his mother. He was at first directly on front of her, she then turned a corner and the toddler dawdled a bit and followed after her. He's only out of her sight for about 2 seconds by my counting.

Exactly, he's clearly following her.

It's terrifying to think that in that one second, if she hasn't looked back, your child could be gone.

It says at the end of that article that its like the James Bulger footage, and it really is. It's chilling.

By the video footage available I would agree he was far, far too quick to lead the little boy away. He seemed in a hurry to gain control and get out of there. Not normal or natural behaviour for a Good Samaritan who just wanted to reunite a lost child with his parents.

I found a lost boy in Ikea last weekend. I said to him 'let's stand still here and wait for your mummy'. I wouldn't have occurred to me to take him anywhere as I assumed she was nearby and would be back for him. My main aim was to reassure him and stop him wandering and getting more lost. I agree it's very odd to lead a child off.

It does look a bit dodgy but as others have said I would like to have seen what happened round the corner before I made any accusations. It could have been an innocent action and I have done something similar that probably looked suspicious too.

I was coming out of the lego store in a busy shopping centre. A little boy of about 2 was walking towards the door, with 2 adults I assumed to be his parents close behind. The boy stopped to look at the window displays while the adults walked into the shop. The boy then started to toddle off away from the shop into the shopping centre.

He was in fact following his parents, who were another couple that
I had not noticed walking in a different direction, but as I thought he was wandering off, I stepped forward as if to stop him. I actually have no idea what I was planning to do, probably redirect him into the shop, definitely wasn't planning to abduct him. Luckily it was at that point his real parents turned round and called to him and I realised he was with them. The mum did give me a bit of a funny look, but I was just glad he wasn't lost really.

I can't believe anyone watching this and thinking it could be innocent. If I see a young child who I think is on their own, I look around first for adults who could be their parents. The toddler was walking behind a woman pushing an empty pushchair. It is pretty obvious that she is probably his mum.

And the man was trying to lead the toddler round the corner. If I have seen a child wandering around see,mingly alone, I stop them, talk to them, and then look around to see if I can see anyone who might be their parent, before leading them to security or other staff. I dont try and immediately take them round the corner.

For those saying this was too risky for a man to do for negative purposes? How was it risky? It was a mum on her own. What was she going to do when he got found out? Shout at him maybe? It would have been risky for him to do this if the toddlers mum was with other people who could have attacked him. But he wasnt at any real risk trying to take this mums toddler.

the man and the mum look close enough to each other that the mum could have heard the man say something to the wee boy. whether that was "let's go find your mummy" or "come here, hold my hand" is anyones guess.

but you wouldn't report a man saying "let's go find your mummy" to the police.

Just from footage alone I think it looks like the child was walking along side their mum, she turned into the shop, child kept walking which is when it appears the child was further away, mere few feet at that. Im assuming the mum spoke to child and said 'this way' or in 'here now' and she turned to check the child had complied.

My DD is about this age and Im tyring to teach her to stay close when walking (I donttrust her not to bolt on schoo run) but I let her walk like this. It is absolutley chilling. We live two towns down from Derby.

I agree with others that the distance he was away from his Mum prior to the shop doorway might give a totally different picture.

BUT what irks me is he never appeared to ask the women with an empty pushchair who was very close by if this was her child - he led him away I apreciate this is hard to judge without sound.

I can't believe anyone watching this and thinking it could be innocent. If I see a young child who I think is on their own, I look around first for adults who could be their parents. The toddler was walking behind a woman pushing an empty pushchair. It is pretty obvious that she is probably his mum

It is obvious based on that clip alone, yes. Which is one reason the context is important. For example, what if for the previous five minutes they were also walking with another couple who looked more like the child (I notice in this case child and mother have different hair colour) and man thought child was with this other couple? Once he'd got that preconception fixed in his head then seeing the toddler following the "wrong" person (which does happen; I've seen my own children get confused toddle off after other people wearing similar trousers to me) could trigger a helpful impulse to stop the child and take it back to its "parents".

I'm not convinced that it's innocent, by any means, but if I were the police I'd want to hear his version of what happened and then look at all the CCTV footage from other stores in the centre to see whether it matches up with reality.

I don't know really, he could just be a right busy body who saw him alone for a couple of seconds and just thought he'd get him to a security guard etc. Really odd.

He IS very quick to lead the child away. He may have had good intentions but that is not a sensible way to deal with the situation.

I once came across a young girl, about 5 years old running past me in a busy shopping centre, something about the fear on her face as she ran past me made me stop her. I was with my three children who were only a little older and was aware that I was more likely to appear a "safe" person both to her and to other shoppers. We stayed still, I was very conscious that I should not touch her and I asked her if she was alright.

She had lost her mother, panicked and started running around the shopping centre. It was clear that her mother was nowhere in sight and so I felt that it was best to return to the place where she had last been with her mother (Marks & Spencers) to seek help.

At that point she said that the two year old boy standing 10 feet away looking at a shop window was her brother who was also lost! I would not have even realised that he was also lost.

I told the sister to hold her brother's hand and to stay close but did not touch either child. I talked to them fairly loudly for the benefit of passers by about how they were lost but we were going back to the shop so that they could put out an announcement asking for their parents. I felt quite uncomfortable leading them away but didn't see that I had much option.

That all took about 10 minutes and I spent a lot of time talking calmly to the child to establish the situation and determine the best way to deal with it. It would have been obvious to everyone within 10 feet what was happening.

I would expect anyone who found a lost child to look around and speak to people in the immediate vicinity before taking them away to find help. I would also ask them, "Where is your Mummy or Daddy?" The child is old enough to point at his mum if she's around, as indeed she was.

Also if there is a staffed or intercom help point just outside the store it would put a different slant on his actions.

I have seen young kids loads of times much farther away from their parents than this toddler. I have thought they might be alone. So I look and check whether there is any adults nearby who could be their parents. Normally within about 5 seconds, an adult turns round and says something like - come on x, hurry up.

This man is very obviously trying to snatch the child. Totally horrifying.

From where the boy was, the man may have thought the boy was with another parent - where he is pointing - and the other parent was walking away out the doors/opposite direction through the centre etc and man was just in a hurry to catch up with them (and he would hardly be that sprightly if he was in his 80s) ....
(If it is innocent I feel really sorry for the poor man with his photo splashed across the paper - kind of wish that they had asked him to come forward before publishing his photo and just hope that this doesn't put off anyone else from rescuing a lost toddler...)

Debbie - Of course the police need to do that and will.

Clearly in the footage he's with his mum. And as others said, first port of call would be to stay with the kid and ask him if he could see his mummy. Or ask people immediately in front and behind child if he's with them.

You do not grab hand and lead off. At most u lift up for a better view.

We do need to see what happened leading up to that moment to be sure though.

Im assuming the police have other footage. Maybe that footage has prompted them to want to find this person.

If the other footage, if it exists, shows an innocent picture then they wouldnt bas trying to find him. All supisition I know...or it is one PR - 'watch you kids close by' exercise.

But he might not have noticed the woman in front. It could be purely innocent.

Without being able to see his face closely and hear what he said, I'm not able to give my opinion on this.
I don't know what the mother saw or heard. Maybe this is why the man is dodgy in her opinion.
Also, what was the child's reaction? Was he scared?

I have suspected for a long time on MN that some posters will defend any man, no matter how suspicious his actions. This thread confirms that suspicion.