Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 7

[Roussette]

here is Part 6. Nearly time for a new one.

That's what I'm thinking member.

That would have never been the case looking waiting lists if nothing else!

I think the judge has made a very sensible choice in a difficult situation, the way she put it so clearly and concisely, cutting right through both the arguments for and against made it clear that the referral simply had to be made.

I think going for outpatient is a very sensible option and will help cut down possible delays due to waiting lists for inpatient places.
So looks like it may be a panel of three psychiatrists and possible a phycologist of two for good measure.
I do think that having a comprehensive overview of OPs mental health is going to be a very good tool when looking at the evidence and making the difficult decisions.

I heard her say 'the defence strangely oppose' to, and it is a bit strange when you think about it, you would expect the defence to welcome any evidence that could reduce their clients culpability in a case like this but as people have said, maybe they worry that it could be found that his mental state had either no impact on his actions that night or that a condition could be found like narsisistic personality disorder or compulsive lying for example that could get OPs evidence struck from the record.
Or, I realise we could have misheard and rather then strangely so may have said strongly!

@roussette So is this going to be days or weeks? Why adjourn till Tuesday?
OP will be assessed for a minimum 30 days, the adjournment is to give counsels to prepare and agree on administrative matters of this order, such as identify and agree on a panel to assess him, whether his an outpatient or not, which facility would be suitable and all of this has to be done in a way that considers there are other patients awaiting services who just cannot be pushed down the queue for this case

Bobble, if that's the case then would he just walk free? Surly he would need treatment or further assessments?

I'd be sacking the legal team because they brought in the anxiety disorder as mitigation but have actually opposed a psychiatric evaluation so clearly they don't actually think that OP has a disorder but have played it as a mitigation card because the rest of their defence has been flimsy. Opposing evaluation is IMO a clear indication that they don't want OP to be found to not have a disorder.

I do think that having a comprehensive overview of OPs mental health is going to be a very good tool when looking at the evidence and making the difficult decisions.

Me too.

OP will be assessed for a minimum 30 days

Just before Roadkill's head explodes all over her screen, do you mean a maximum of 30 days?

"Well, if I was op I would be sacking my legal team"

Even if he was acquitted on this charge due to diminished responsibility, I'm not sure that illegal possesion of ammunition or discharging a firearm in a public place could be said to have occured due to diminished responsibility.

Yy wannabe, and the dates of the assessment were last week.

I think the defence took a gamble and lost

Didn't the Dr say that she thought op was a danger yesterday?

It could turn out that he gets found not guilty due to diminished responsibility and do no time in prison.

I'm not sure about this - I don't think it's a case of 'completely responsible' or 'not responsible at all.' I think there are other possibilities.

Also, I'll have to look back, but I think one of the things that came up was OPs reliability as a witness given his circumstances. I can't remember in what context though; it might have been she was just listing other case law and it might not be relevant here.

Well surely if they do not feel he is a big enough risk to keep him as an inpatient and they can evaluate him as an outpatient; they will not see the need to treat him as an inpatient?

I don't know how it works in SA to say for sure, maybe someone else will know?

Maybe he will not go to prison but will have to go to treatment to control his anxiety for however long it takes. that could mean a weekly or monthly visit to keep him in check.

If it is true how well they can hide their anxiety (if he has was Dr Vorster said) surely he could make out he is doing so well and is fine, not worried about burglars etc. So much evidence points towards him not being as bad as was said as it is.

The adjournment until Tuesday is for the details if the order to be drawn up, like in patient or out patient, the make up of mental health profetionals on the panel, where when and how it will be carried out, how long the process will be (Not a minimum of 30 days!! I am about to give up my life on this one, it is UP TO 30 days!).

All those details need to be prepared and agreed between council, the mental health profetionals need to be secured and time found in their diaries, it's not a problem money can be thrown at as it is an assessment by state services (but not by the state as in prosecution, not to confuse the two, it is an independent assessment) and there are waiting lists, they will have some power to jump waiting lists a little give they are so close to the end of evidence in an on going trial but they can't jump over the heads of everybody on the waiting list. Out patient assessment will cut wait list times massively so with some clauses built in I don't think the state will opose this.
The judge didn't say that it wasn't punishment because the state mental health hospital are bad (although they may well be) she said it because if he where an inpatient it would be a forsed detention and his liberty would be removed, this can easily be seen as punitive.

Roadkill - looks like the 30 days was accurate after all... no mention of a 3 day option by Masipa...

I apologise in advance for my compulsion to share this with you but I have to tell you that it's psychologist not phycologist!!

@anya if I were Roux I would drop OP, on witness stand he changed his defence, blamed them for is bail application despite conceding he read his bail application several times, changed his version when he couldn't explain himself. An attorney can only advice, OP does not come off as that passive

Damn right I would sack the legal team

Paid for a Pathologyist to attend reevas autopsy but hasn't testified
Paid for Dixon - need I say more
Paid for a social worker - why?
Paid for a forensic phychologist - gave him a DX of GAD after two meeting and now being sent to a state hospital to be assessed. As member said, the hospitals are worst then prison.

That wouldn't be good for Roux to drop op tho.

The case isn't going well so bye bye? How would that look to other people who need a defence team?

I doubt they would have paid for the social worker.

Roux can't control everything Anya. OP might feel the need to change lawyers, it happens when clients start to dislike the outcome. Certainly no absolute reflection on the work that lawyer has done.

Anya lawyers drop difficult clients. And clients that ask then to do things that they feel compromise their professional obligations.

I don't think the defence saw this one coming, if OP does not show signs of GAD then he will deemed fit enough to stand trial for his action as he knew fully what he was doing - shouldn't the defence be relieved there might be a possibility OP can walk free? I suspect the defence's concerns that items expensive for OP and fear he might be committed as an inpatient at a public SA hospital

I

Oh I know, just can't believe what a mess this has turned out to be

Sorry autocorrect on IPad, defence concerns are its expensive for OP and might be committed as an inpatient in what you have heard of the conditions of SA hospitals

I'm still not able to keep up with it all so thank goodness for this thread.

I think this is true desperation - it will be preferable to spend a lifetime in a psych ward than in a SA prison.

If a defence of diminished resp works there is still no way OP could be released - he would have to stay in hospital until his condition is cured 100% - and therefore he is no longer a threat to others.

If his mental state prior to the shooting was that bad, then he presents a mortal danger to all those around him.

Personally, I don't believe it for one second.