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Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 7

999 replies

Roussette · 08/05/2014 11:55

here is Part 6. Nearly time for a new one.

OP posts:
Crazeeladee · 12/05/2014 10:42

Isn't Heinrich Carl's other name, not his father?

Crazeeladee · 12/05/2014 10:43

Sorry, cross post!

AmIthatSpringy · 12/05/2014 10:44

I keep getting interrupted. (damn work)

Is the psychiatrist a woman?

Yes his dad was at the bail hearing

A pp, maybe on a previous thread, took that as proof they were in touch. However OP didn't speak to him at that and he wasn't there when he was released. That's why the ammunition thing is so odd . Maybe trying to please his dad? very odd

Crazeeladee · 12/05/2014 10:45

Yes, the psychiatrist is a woman.

AmIthatSpringy · 12/05/2014 10:45

Agree with others. Was his brother who was phoned, not his dad

StackALee · 12/05/2014 10:46

I think introducing anxiety as a way to excuse his behaviour on that night is quite insulting to anyone suffering from anxiety/mental health issues.

People are complex, we all have problems with our ego and our self esteem. All famous people suffer from issues to do with the expectations placed upon them, problems with the private V the public.

not everyone would shoot a person they can't see in an enclosed space four times, however anxious and stressed they are.

StackALee · 12/05/2014 10:47

Ah sorry - mix up over names.

StackALee · 12/05/2014 10:48

I think this witness is all about clutching at straws.

RoadKillBunny · 12/05/2014 10:50

So Frank has been looking after the house for OP over the last year and a bit, he has been looked after. Not surprised, exactly as I expected. Not much else to say on that really us there? I mean, you can't use that information as part of the picture we are trying to build of the events that night and have to try to take it on face value, Frank has worked for OP fir a long time, they have a fairly close relationship due to this. Frank has been in an impossible situation.

looking I am finding the psychiatrist hard also. I have a disability, I had a childhood full if hospital and painful surgery, I was a little older when the worst of it was but the same age when it began. I was abused by my biological father who is a horrible man and who was a terrible father. I was lucky with my wonderful Mum and my (step) dad. My (Step) dad died of cancer when I was 17 after a long fight of 3 difficult painful years.
I am not alone with my difficult and traumatic childhood. There are far too many of us out there with similar histories. We still have to take responsibility for our actions.
I sence that they are trying to suggest that the behaviour that led to the what's app messages and the messages themselves are going to be explained as part of OPs anxiety disorder. This may be true but it doesn't make it acceptable. If you looked into the personal histories of men and woman who are abusive, 9 out of 10 times you will find a childhood littered with trauma and abuse. But that really can not be used to excuse the abuse, it makes me angry and upset to think of it being used to excuse the harming of others be that physically or emotionally. Knowing why a person behaves as they do is important but you can't use it to excuse.

Sorry.

On a less personally emotive aspect I also wonder how on one hand OP can be reporting poor relations with siblings and wider family yet be surrounded by them since Reeva was killed, to have poor relations with his fathers family yet go straight to living in his uncles home. I know families often come together in times of crisis but the ease and comfort to which it all came together within hours of him pulling the trigger makes me feel that the family difficulties the psychiatrist is talking about are grossly exaggerated.
As for his father, yes it has always reported to be a difficult relationship but as I and others has said before, close enough to have access to his home and safe, close enough to store ammo for him, close enough for his Father to have been with him in the days after the shooting, for him to be at the bail hearing until made some dodgy racist comments to the media spoiling OPs carefully crafted public image. His fathers exclusion has always felt to me to be more of an exercise in PR then anything else.

All considered I may do as looking us and follow on twitter but not watch until cross. Maybe my bias is showing there. I can hopefully see part it when it comes to my evaluations when the evidence and closing arguments are in.

LookingThroughTheFog · 12/05/2014 10:55

I think introducing anxiety as a way to excuse his behaviour on that night is quite insulting to anyone suffering from anxiety/mental health issues.

This.

There are so many levels to this but;

  1. it's insulting to those of us who have worked fucking hard and gone through some hideous stuff so that we can overcome it. I haven't behaved perfectly, but I've owned up to the times when I haven't, I've apologised, and I've worked bloody hard to fix myself.

  2. It suggests that someone with no mental health issues, no panic problems, no anxiety, isn't going to react this way. It's either a human reaction, and applies to everyone, or it's not.

  3. I's insulting to the victims. I was assaulted twice by my dad when I was a child. Two vicious, aggressive attacks - not a slap around the legs (I got that too) but proper assaults that should have been reported. I'm fucking sick to the back teeth of hearing 'but you have to understand, he had a terrible childhood...' No. Fuck that. Stop excusing and enabling this dreadful behaviour.

(Like I say - I'm totally biased against this sort of testimony. I do know that mental health issues are relevant in some cases, not least when looking at some of the psychotic disorders. I just find it excruciating to hear.)

StackALee · 12/05/2014 10:56

I do feel awfully sorry for him as a child, and can understand how all of the things that happened to him could have caused him to be a messed up person :(

Roussette · 12/05/2014 10:58

Gosh... OP is distrustful, guarded, she says... lonely, anxious, etc. His physical vulnerability makes him more anxious as does losing his Mother. He doesn't have a secure emotional attachment to family.

His fear of crime is over the top and more than other people. She says he considers his environment as hostile and unsafe. If that's so, why didn't he call security?

I wonder how Nel is going to handle this.

OP posts:
AnyaKnowIt · 12/05/2014 11:00

But most people who have a messed up childhood go and get help to deal with those issues. They don't shoot someone unable to defend themselves.

To me it still smacks of its someone else's fault

StackALee · 12/05/2014 11:01

When were these reports made?
Straight after the incident?

member · 12/05/2014 11:01

She says he is resmorseful - how did she come to that conclusion?

AnyaKnowIt · 12/05/2014 11:03

His fear of crime is over the top and more than other people. She says he considers his environment as hostile and unsafe. If that's so, why didn't he call security?

So why sleep with windows open and ladders against them? Why buy a house without window bars? Why didn't he use his panic alarm on the night or the washing machine incident?

AnyaKnowIt · 12/05/2014 11:05

Are the defence going for demishined responsibilty?

Roussette · 12/05/2014 11:05

She says his reaction to situations would be different to other people because of his vulnerability and his anxiety disorder and is unlike a normal able bodied person, but that doesn't constitute a mental illness. Nel is picking at this. And is asking about diminished responsibility and the psychiatrist says it is a possibility.

(sorry to post if you are watching this live - I think some posters aren't)

OP posts:
member · 12/05/2014 11:05

I think 21st Feb 2013 was mentioned(though I could very well be getting mixed up)

StackALee · 12/05/2014 11:05

Surely what the defence are trying to say is that OP's general feelings about his vunerability from intruders was heightened because of his disability and his anxiety.

so his reaction to a perceived intruder was fueled by all of that?

Can't the witness just say that?

AnyaKnowIt · 12/05/2014 11:06

Forget that last post, got my roux and nel mixed up Blush

LouiseBrooks · 12/05/2014 11:06

To me this is interesting - One way of alleviating anxiety was to be in control of his environment. I have suffered with an anxiety disorder since I was pre-teen and I do this, but I didn't even realise I did it until a close friend pointed it out to me when we were on holiday together more than 20 years ago.

Stack - "not everyone would shoot a person they can't see in an enclosed space four times, however anxious and stressed they are"

No they wouldn't but I think that what she is getting at is that the combination of this and his disability could lead him to behave in a way that most people wouldn't.

It can explain but not excuse his behaviour. There is a difference.

LookingThroughTheFog · 12/05/2014 11:06

Thanks, Rousette. It's really helpful.

StackALee · 12/05/2014 11:07

there we are... she has said it.

LookingThroughTheFog · 12/05/2014 11:08

It can explain but not excuse his behaviour. There is a difference.

This is very true.