Oscar Pistorius trial part 2

[JillJ72]

To continue from previous thread

I also wondered about them arguing over the fans.

But then, would he have mentioned to the police that he'd asked her to bring them in, as it may have led them to probe about an argument?

I'm confusing myself now!

BMW6 I can't get my round is why, if he is so terrified of intruders, did he have a broken window on the ground floor, no alarm system, no bars on windows.
^^ I'm struggling with this too. I'm starting to think the fear of intruders is just a cover to mask what happened.

Interesting stuff RoadKill - but would all that have happened with him on his stumps do you think?

Just finished watching the end of today's coverage. I don't know what to think, I think Nel is bloody hard to endure. OP sounds wearied by the questioning and I don't think he comes across that badly. Nothing is conclusive re. anything that Nel is saying eg. whether the cables can stretch that far. I don't get it - why haven't they tested conclusively whether they can or can't?

Having lived in South Africa in my teens and early twenties and known many people similar to Reeva who have religious beliefs, I personally think that they had not actually had sex yet, which is why she was sleeping in shorts and a shirt.

They may spend the night together, but not in a physical way. Their messages to each other also show a complete lack of passion. I would be mortified if anyone got hold of some of the emails between my husband and I as they were very racy.

I also would probably lock the toilet door, and take my phone with me for light. So those things do not ring any alarm bells for me.

I can also understand why Oscar is not giving straight answers. He cannot have his cake and eat it too. He either goes to prison for killing with intent, or he goes to prison for reckless gun handling. He is trying to get out of both. I read that even the acts of firing a gun like he did carry sentences of 15 years, (although I am open to correction) and obviously murder is 25 years. He is probably feeling that either would be a death sentence and is desperately trying to avoid both.

I agree there is a noticeable lack of passion in their texts. Re. them going to bed early and how weird etc for people of their age, I used to work in tv production and most slebs/presenters I ever came across were bloody boring too. It's hard work looking that 'perfect' and living those lives, they're not interested in having some of yer actual FUN.

I think the answer to why would a man so paranoid about security have so many holes in his home security and be put on his love of guns and impulsive personality. He had a gun. He felt he was a man and if somebody broke in he would deal with the threat with his gun. I have the feeling it was almost a fantasy to him that it would happen giving him reason to use his gun. That leads me to my other version of events, I mentioned this morning, that he let the situation get away from him as he was living out his fantasy and that made him reckless in not checking where Reeva was or if the threat was real.

Why would he tell the police about asking Reeva to bring in the fans?
Well the less you lie about the easier it is to sustain the lie. He needed to have a reason why he would get up in the night to bring in fans and shut door as otherwise we would ask why he didn't do that before he went to sleep.
Not saying that is what happened but that it fits. Lots of different story's will fit though. That's the problem when there is only one living witness.

I feel very sorry for him because he had everything and has ruined his own life. I almost wish there was another sentence that could be passed instead of prison, but how unfair would that be to everyone else in the world?

Also, I imagine how I would feel if he did get off prison, by playing the devastated, broken man that we have been seeing on tv, and then in a year or two, he marries someone and goes on to have a happy life, with maybe success in sport thrown in too. It would be so disrespectful to Reeva to not pay a heavy price in some way.

He is trying to get everyone to let him off by playing the penitent devastated boyfriend who has lost the love of his life and has therefore been punished enough. However, they had known each other 3 months, and had no interdependency so this doesn't hold much weight. They hadn't even mentioned the love word.

Even if his story is true, by carrying a gun around people he loves he is assuming some kind of control over their lives (whether in protection or as a threat) and with that control comes great responsibility. People who carry guns don't do it because they are pretty, collectible objects, they do it with the expectation (and may I say hope?) that they will use it someday.

It will be interesting to hear what other defence witnesses have to say.

Would the argument over the fans happened on his stumps?
I think yes, if this is what happened then it would likely have been a very quick to the boil and intense. Stopping to put on his prosthetics would have been a rational move, this would have been a very irrational rant.
I don't believe he is as helpless without prosthetics as he claims. He has had the same his whole life, while he wouldn't be great he would be functional. He discribes him self running from one place to another without prosthetics but then in the next sentence wants you to believe he can barely keep upright. I don't buy it and feel he is playing on his disability. As a disabled person I find that very distasteful.

I don't believe he is as helpless without prosthetics as he claims.

I totally agree. He's running about picking up heavy fans that are as tall as him when it suits him, but can hardly balance at other times according to him.

I think Nel has done a brilliant job and I enjoy watching him in an objective way. It is amazing how he will pick up on something Oscar says and go back to evidence given hours or days before that is contradictory. I think he is only annoying to those who want to be convinced of OPs innocence, and your appreciation of him depends on which side of the case you stand on.

I am so impressed by his organised brain, as I always forget pertinent things in arguments, only to remember them when the time to speak out has clearly passed when I get so peed off with myself.

I do think that OPs team have let him down badly. I would have thought they would have spent hours role playing and going over and over testimony from different angles and asking questions in different ways. How did they not see that the fan was in the way of the balcony door?

I know that they can't think of everything, but as soon as Nel showed that photo and said 'can you see if anything in that picture is wrong?' I thought of him opening the door to the balcony and the fan would be in the way. They studied the photos for every millimeter inconsistency, so should have noticed that.

If you lie about the little things, why would people believe you about the big things. His hugest whopper today was about someone telling him Darren and Samantha must have colluded about the gunshot.

I did say on the previous thread (before Nel started with OP) that I thought the only way that he would be able to question OP was by direct questions which hopped out of sequence which would make OP have to think, and not be able to build up his emotion. It seems to be working. OP is getting angry

To those who think he is lying. Do you think he has told anyone the truth. Surely he can't be lying to everyone in his family too. Someone else must know what happened. He must have confessed to someone. It would be very hard to keep a secret like that to yourself for ever.

Perhaps the whole fan thing is a lie. No one got fans in, no one left doors open. He just had to say that happened to explain how he disn't know it was Reeva in the bathroom.

Plus they could have argued about anything from him thinking she had been unfaithful or disrespectful or not wanting to make love or even that he had been unfaithful or disrespectful. Anything.

roadkill that theory sounds plausible but I still don't think he would give them the information about asking her to bring in the fans even though it would be an additional thing to have to lie about, as it would be the key part of the motive. I think if he is lying then the answer must lie in a piece of information he has withheld. In some ways though the whole thing seems so unlucky/unlikely that it is more plausible to me because of that, as it would be hard to make it up.

Just trying to work out what I would say to lie my way out, impossible to know, but maybe I would say that Reeva had already been to the toilet and that's another reason why i didn't think it was her. Or I heard her snoring but now I know that must have been the fan. I don't know, such a tragic situation whatever the outcome.

Agree petty i feel very sorry for him as well as her family of course, but yes what else could there be that would be punishment enough to allow him to pay his dues (which someone argued to me yesterday and I can see their point).

He really is like a child. Deny, deny, deny and then no one can be sure and the judge can't rule on murder or gun crimes. He believes that his right to a happy rest of his life is more important than Reeva's memory and the victims of Reeva's death (i.e. family and friends).

He has never taken responsibility for anything voluntarily. Even in their messages to each other, whatever she is upset about, she could have prevented in the first place by not acting a particular way.

If he is lying then he may have told no one. Who knows.

True stack, perhaps the fan thing isn't true.

He has never taken responsibility for anything voluntarily.

Well, that is certainly Nel's line of attack. He is clearly bombarding him with examples in every situation where he refuses to accept responsibility. I think his tactic is phenomenally clever. One minute he is haranguing him about never taking responsibility, then he's ridiculing him for not pleading guilty to any of the charges. I think OP is running scared now, and wondering if he should have pled guilty to the lesser charge in order to move attention away from the others. I don't know.

pettybetty How did they not see that the fan was in the way of the balcony door?

What happened with this? Sorry, I must have missed that bit.

Armchair, I think his family today were seriously shaken. I think he has kept up the lie to everyone and now they are forced to see the inconsistencies. At one point, the camera panned to Aimee and Carl, and they were looking at him talking with such odd looks on their faces.

Every other time I saw Aimee (because she stands out on camera) she had such an expression of sorrow and anguish for him, even praying sometimes, but today there was a shrewd expression on her face sometimes. A real 'wtf, who are you to talk such bull' expression. Maybe it was just me but I'd be interested in other people's takes.

petty I suspect his defence have advised him to do that. I wonder if they have let him down by coaching him too much in tactics instead of just sticking to the absolute truth. Mind you, I think I'm one of the few here who think he did ok today, at least in sounding genuine. But can see that isn't how it came across to many.

Voice, a photo was shown of the corner of the bed, the duvet on the floor, the balcony doors and curtains, and the fan.

OPs testimony was that he brought the fans in and locked the door and closed the curtains, so the room was pitch black so he didn't see she had got out of bed. After he realised he shot her he ran to open the door and scream for help.

Well, the problem is that the two fans were blocking the door, and one curtain was pulled right over, further than would be needed to go out on the balcony to scream for help.

Also, the fact that he brought 2 fans in, both of which had been switched on on the balcony. Only one fan was in the picture, and there was no plugpoint available for the other fan, so this too must have been untrue. In the police pictures, the other fan was unplugged, across the room, next to the hifi system.

He is now saying that the police must have moved both fans (unplugging one and moving it across the room and plugging in the hair shaver), opened the curtain more, and threw the duvet on the floor. Such a lot for the police to move.

I think I know the photo you mean. So they are saying that he therefore couldn't have gone outside to shout for help?