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Professor David Southall exposed

59 replies

PennyM · 17/08/2006 15:18

www.msbp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1646

on the MAMA board where you can download evidence of the experiments David Southall has undertaken on small vulnerable infants and children.

This from the man that falsely accuses parents of smothering their children

OP posts:
Callisto · 19/08/2006 21:12

Sadly all of his mates at the GMC think otherwise.

expatinscotland · 19/08/2006 21:14

WTF is wrong w/this?! MEN like Roy Meadows and this disgusting, callous, f*cked up excuse for a healthcare professional are out walking around - turned loose on an unsuspecting populace??

How can this be?

WTF?!

PennyM · 20/08/2006 10:20

Thank you all for your responses-please do read the "scary" links-CNEP (ventilators) are the very least of what he did-in protocol 85/02 he smothered high risk for SIDS babies with a mask at functional residual capacity (end of an outward breath) reduced their oxygen to 15% and then gave 4% CO2 which would have knocked the gasping mechanism out-this potentially could cause the babies to then die of SIDS at a later date-the documents prove this happened-we have already identified 1 SIDS and several children who were brain injured as a direct result of this experiment.

I am sorry if it appears I am scaremongering-but nobody wants to believe the child protector could be a child abuser-not too dissimilar to how the public used to react when somebody accused the priest of being a paedophile.

Think about it-accusing questining mothers of MSbP=what better way to cover up for the harm you cause children-just like the priests saying they are men of the cloth and would do no such thing to children-look how long it took before anyone believed Shipman was a serial killer.

As to it "not being evil and only misguided" sorry I have been present during investigations into Southall. I have witnessed first hand what he is capable of doing. Do you seriously think John Hemming MP would come on board unless he had the proof of what's gone on?

This is subject to a police investigation that is ongoing and expanding.
from the Western Mail:

Welsh parents 'accused' by shamed doctor

A welsh mother last night spoke of how a doctor found guilty of serious professional misconduct had accused her husband and her of abusing their sick son.

Davina Hollisey-Mclean said Professor David Southall had accused them of harming their son, Ben, and in 1991 of arranging to have tests performed on him at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff, behind their backs.

The doctor was yesterday banned from taking part in any child protection work either in or outside the NHS for the next three years.

The General Medical Council (GMC) heard how he had accused Steve Clark of killing his children Christopher and Harry after he watched a Channel 4 Despatches documentary about the case in April 2000.

The consultant paediatrician will now face the GMC again in January when seven further sets of parents' complaints are heard.

Prof Southall had said it was 'beyond reasonable doubt' that Mr Clark had killed his children and expressed concern for the Clarks' remaining child, Child A.

Denis McDevitt, chairman of the professional conduct committee, said it was 'extremely concerned' the doctor had formed a 'definite view' without interviewing the Clarks or seeing medical reports.

Mrs Clark, 40, was convicted in 1999 of murdering her two sons but cleared by the Court of Appeal in January last year.

Mrs Hollisey-Mclean told the BBC last night how her family had been drawn into a nightmare after encountering the paediatrician.

She said, 'On the first visit he was absolutely charming. Quite honestly, he could have charmed the birds out of the trees.

'However, I got to know and see a very different side to Dr Southall.

'As long as things are going his way he's fine but it seems to me he changes if anyone stands in his way.

'Ben was born in 1985. He was born with breathing difficulties. He was under the care of Great Ormond Street [children's hospital].

'He was a very happy, courageous, superb little boy who taught us so much and especially gave us his love.

'The idea was that Dr Southall had developed a new monitor which would alarm when a child's oxygen levels were dropping.

'It was an early warning system and we wondered whether this would have been of benefit to Ben, rather than the system we were using which only told us when he had stopped breathing.

'On the second visit in 1990 his attitude had changed. We were asking questions about the test he intended carrying out on our son and the treatment that he was suggesting that was totally different to what Great Ormond Street said should happen,' Mrs Clark said.

When the parents consulted the doctor who had been treating Ben, he advised them to disregard Prof Southall's suggestions.

She said, 'When we said no to Dr Southall and said no to his tests [. . .] Dr Southall, unbeknownst to us, started to pursue us and made allegations of child abuse in relation to both myself and my husband.

'We were the first couple worldwide to be jointly accused of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy and, eventually, Dr Southall intervened in the treatment plan of Great Ormond Street and contacted social services in London - even though the ones in Wales had said they weren't concerned, [that] we were loving caring parents and Ben was in a loving, caring home.

'Dr Southall wouldn't take any notice and he activated social services in London,' Mrs Clark said.

'It was decided in a case conference that Ben should go into hospital away from us for 28 nights and tests should be carried out on him.

'We were totally against Dr Southall being involved in tests in any way.'

On July 18, 1991, Ben was admitted to the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff.

His mother said, 'Unbeknownst to us, on the very first night Dr Southall's technician and Dr Southall's equipment was brought into the University Hospital of Wales and behind our backs the tests were carried out.

'The technician had no contract to be in the hospital and on his own admission wasn't qualified to assess any damage that may have occurred to Ben while the investigations were taking place.

'What happened to our son while away from our care in hospital is the subject of a police investigation.'

Mrs Clark said she was surprised by yesterday's judgment.

'To be honest, I didn't expect anything to happen because of our experience over the last 13 years. We have lost faith in justice and the child protection system.'

When asked how different her family's lives would be today if they had never had contact with the doctor she said, 'My husband says our lives are not what we would chosen for ourselves.

'For Ben, life, I believe, would have totally different.

'Ben will never fulfil the potential that he had and Ben is frozen in time, really, at the age of about five.

'He has profound speech and language difficulties.

'For him, life will never be what it should have been,' Mrs Clark said.

After the hearing Prof Southall's solicitor, Margaret Taylor, said, 'Prof Southall is very relieved that the GMC has decided that he should be permitted to continue to work as a paediatrician.

'Although disappointed that the committee has applied conditions to his registration, he sincerely hopes that the decision will not deter other paediatricians from continuing to act in the particularly difficult area of child protection and speaking out when they suspect a child has been abused.'

===
And from the (Birmingham) Sunday Mercury:

JUSTICE FOR JULIE: More complaints for shamed Prof

DISGRACED Midland paediatrician Professor David Southall has kept his hospital job despite being found guilty of serious professional misconduct.

But campaigning parents who say they have been wrongly accused of child abuse, last night warned that there are more complaints to follow.

The child expert, who works at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire, will face seven more charges at the General Medical Council in February.

And Andrea Dean, from Newcastle-Under-Lyme in Staffordshire, said she is waiting for her case against the doctor to to be reviewed, too.

Like Stephen Canning, Mrs Dean was accused of being a threat to her children by the paediatrician - even though he had never met her.

On Friday the GMC found Professor Southall guilty of serious professional misconduct after he alleged that Mr Canning killed his children after simply watching him being interviewed on a TV programme.

He had conditions placed on his licence which means he is banned from child protection work for three years.

But he can continue to work at the hospital in his other roles.

Professor Southall had previously claimed that Mrs Dean might kill her children after reading a vet's report into the brutal deaths of the her pet dogs.

Following his reports to child protection agencies, her two young daughters and son were taken into care.

A court battle had to be launched before the children were eventually returned to Andrea.

'More allegations have been made against Professor Southall,' she said last night. 'Stephen's case is just the beginning.

'He will face seven more charges in February and my own case against him is also being reviewed.

'It is strange that he has kept his job, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be treated by him after this.'

A spokesman for the University Hospital of North Staffordshire said: 'Professor Southall is an enthusiastic and energetic doctor who has contributed immensely to the welfare of children, not just in North Staffordshire, but across the UK and abroad.

'This penalty will allow him to continue to use his clinical skills for the benefit of sick children.'

And from the Guardian:

08/07/2004 12:38:44 PM EDT -- The Guardian

Couple accused of abuse suffered 17 years anguish: Censured paediatrician faces further hearings into claims that infants were removed from families because of his 'overzealous beliefs'

The controversial paediatrician David Southall, faces a further professional misconduct hearing into allegations by parents that he wrongly accused them of child abuse.

Six of the seven cases, some of which date back 17 years, involve parents who claim that he abused his position to have their children taken from them because of his overzealous belief that they were suffering from Munchausen's syndrome by proxy (MSBP), a diagnosis that parents deliberately harm their children to draw attention to themselves.

He was found guilty yesterday by the General Medical Council of serious professional misconduct for accusing a father of killing his two babies on the basis of a television programme.

Among the parents are mothers who were secretly filmed at the Royal Brompton hospital, south-west London, and North Staffordshire dis trict hospital, Stoke-on-Trent, in a research project intended to catch women whom Professor Southall believed were abusing their babies.

The allegations will be considered in January. Prof Southall denies wrongly diagnosing abuse. He could not comment on the pending cases.

Included in the list of complaints is that of Janet and Robin Alexander from Ludlow, Shropshire, who have waited 17 years for the chance to air their allegations against him. "The shadow of David Southall has hung over our lives all this time," Mrs Alexander said. "We have waited 17 years and we want to see the evidence we have against him heard."

The Alexanders claim that Prof Southall subjected their baby Lawrence to research without their consent and when they tried to remove him from the hospital, wardship proceedings were initiated.

Mrs Alexander said her son, who was born in 1986, suffered from repeated life-threatening collapses between the ages of six weeks and nine months.

"He would lose all his muscle tone, he gradually started going blue-grey around his mouth, and his heart would go practically down to nothing. To all intents and purposes he died. These attacks were happening three or four times a day."

They were referred to Prof Southall, who was described as a "world cot death expert" and at the time worked at the Royal Brompton. They claim that he was "rude, abrupt and confrontational" and told them their baby would have to be attached to "state-of-the-art" monitoring equipment.

"He never told us that we were part of any research project . . . and consent was not discussed," Mrs Alexander said. "But what we were really being sent to him for was covert video surveillance."

She alleges that she found out years later that they had been suspected of poisoning their child, although tests of his blood and the mother's milk proved negative. Over 10 days the couple lived with their baby in a hospital ward while he was monitored.

"The equipment was horrendous," Mrs Alexander said. "He had to be kept in a high-sided cot with bars for 10 days and nights continuously. He could barely move."

It was only later, she said, that they discovered from medical notes that they were being filmed. "We had no idea we were guinea pigs."

Lawrence was then tested for gastro-oesophageal reflux, a condition that can cause life-threatening episodes. Mrs Alexander claims Prof Southall continued to pursue his theory that the couple had MSBP and that their child was normal.

Exhausted by the tests on their baby, they told the doctor they wanted their son to be discharged from his care.

In response, they claim, the paediatrician asked them to attend a final diagnostic meeting. When they agreed he led them to a room full of lawyers and social workers, where wardship papers were served.

"I remember clinging on to a metal chair in the room and thinking, 'If I let go of this chair and take those papers my life is going to be finished, they are going to take him from me'," Mrs Alexander said. "I remember the sister prising my hand off the chair so that I could accept the papers. All the time Dr Southall kept saying, 'Your child is perfectly normal'."

An interim high court order gave care of the baby to the Royal Brompton. But eight months later, after the case was investigated by social services and the Alexanders were examined by a psychiatrist who said they were not suffering from any psychiatric disorder, wardship proceedings were dismissed.

They lodged their complaint against Prof Southall in 1987 and say for the past 17 years the smear of child abuse has affected their son's education and their job prospects.

"David Southall sees MSBP everywhere," Mrs Alexander said. "He failed to respect our privacy and dignity and his incorrect diagnosis left my husband and I with the stigma of being accused of being child abusers."

===
Lots more in the same vein in the last week if anyone wants the links/stories.

OP posts:
PennyM · 20/08/2006 10:25

saggarmakersbottomknocker can you email me privately? [email protected]

OP posts:
saggarmakersbottomknocker · 20/08/2006 11:53

No Penny I'm sorry, I can't get into this. My child is looked after by this hospital among others and whilst I have serious misgivings about Southall's work I just cannot allow myself to get into the mindset of complete mistrust. That way lies madness for me - we have already battled through misdiagnosis - I cannot risk losing the faith I have left.

Suffice to say I have seen him in action on several occasions and he has been involved in my dd's care, but I would not allow her to be his patient.

PennyM · 20/08/2006 12:35

saggarmakersbottomknocker I understand-I am sorry that you have had to undergo misdiagnosis and all the pain that goes with it-good luck with your child and if you need any advice ref some excellent specialist paeds let me know-I apologise if in any way this has added to your stress.

OP posts:
saggarmakersbottomknocker · 20/08/2006 12:52

No need to apologise Penny . Thanks for the offer.

PennyM · 20/08/2006 17:47

DAILY EXPRESS TUESDAY FEBRUARY 6 2001 Page 30

Scandal of 'smothered' babies in cot death test

Police investigate experiments on little children with lung problems

EXCLUSIVE
BY LUCY JOHNSTON
AND JONATHAN CALVERT

SECRET hospital cot death experiments in which doctors planned deliberately
to `smother' babies are being investigated by police.

The research project, devised by some of Britain's leading child
specialists,
envisaged using tiny infants with severe breathing difficulties.

The babies' faces were to be covered with a mask attached to a breathing
machine and their mouths `smothered' for up to 10 seconds on five occasions.

It is not clear whether the scheme was ever fully carried out, but it
appears
that some parts did take place.

The controversial procedure, approved by an ethics committee, was regarded
as safe. The infants would be secretly monitored by doctors as they got
older. If they died of unrelated illness, pieces of their lungs, brains,
livers, and hearts would be sent to a pathologist in Sheffield Children's
Hospital for analysis and comparison with the project data.

The study was designed to help discover whether cot death was caused by
breathing and heart abnormalities and involved children across the country.

In a highly unusual move, doctors decided they would not seek written
consent
from parents because they did not want to cause alarm.

The study, named the Sudden Infant Death Project, was planned to be carried
out at three hospitals: Rotherham District General, the Doncaster Royal
Infirmary and the Barnsley District Hospital during the late Eighties and
early Nineties.

A spokesperson for the Rotherham District General Hospital said: "Our
consultant has said that the study did go ahead so I'm pretty sure it did."

A spokeswoman for the Doncaster Royal Infirmary said it could not comment on
the matter "because it is subject of a police inquiry".

The Daily Express has evidence the experiment could also have been conducted
at other hospitals. Two sets of parents believe their children were brain
damaged after being put into similar experiments.

The two children, whose brains were developing normally, now have speech and
co-ordination problems and severe learning difficulties.

The parents have not been able to find out what happened while their
children
were in hospital.

Details of the proposed experiments have horrified medical experts. Dr
Richard Nicholson, a child specialist and editor of The Bulletin of Medical
Ethics commented: "To block off the airways of babies at high risk of cot
death for research of doubtful value would be as dangerous as it would be
unethical.

"If the air supply had been cut off for a little too long the experiment
might have resulted in the death of the baby which is both unethical and
possibly illegal unless you are certain that the infants stand a large
chance
of benefiting from any information you obtain."

Leading child expert Dr Keith Eaton was also concerned: "I cannot believe
this would be beneficial to the children in the study or help save the lives
of other children. This sounds both alarming and difficult to justify"

However the man who designed the study, Professor David Southall, said only
research which involved blocking babies' airways for a tenth of a second was
carried out.

He said: "I do remember the lung function testing of babies and I do
remember
that it was one-tenth of a second and that we had research ethics approval
from the hospital research ethics committee."

The child, he added, need not be disturbed as the test was carried out: "You
can creep up on them when they are asleep and put this mask on, so that they
are breathing through the mask which is attached to an instrument which
measures the flow of air in and out of the lungs."

Penny Mellor who runs Dare to Care, a child advocacy group said: "I have
long
maintained that unethical experiments were carried out on vulnerable babies
and this study confirms my worst fears."

A spokesman for South Yorkshire police said: "We have made inquiries into
this study and are still making inquires."

Professor Southall is currently under suspension after concerns were raised
about research into child protection. Parents complained he was falsely
accusing them of Munchausen's by Proxy, a condition in which people harm
infants to gain attention.

Last year a Government inquiry criticised another of Prof Southall's
breathing experiments over the methods he used to obtain consent.

Parents of babies treated by Prof Southall claim they did not know their
infants were part of a trial of a new form of ventilator and say that they
did not, or could not remember signing consent forms.

The Department of Health has now ordered a review of this trial to see if it
led to children's deaths or brain damage.
___

OP posts:
PennyM · 23/08/2006 17:31

www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=47&newsID=9616

MP Hemming welcomes 'Professor Southall' probeBack to Health

Publisher: Ian Morgan
Published: 23/08/2006 - 16:52:38 PM Printable version
Send to a friend

John Hemming MP Campaigning MP, John Hemming, has welcomed South Wales Police's launch of an investigation into experiments performed by Professor David Southall of North Staffordshire Hospital on children.

He has called for other parents whose children were treated directly or indirectly by Professor Southall who may have concerns, to write to him at the House of Commons so he can pass information to the appropriate police.

Mr Hemming said: "Professor Southall wrote in 1985 that he would not ask for consent from parents before he put their children into some of his experiments. In the published material on the BMJ website it is quite clear that his experiments caused harm to some of the children involved in the experiments."

"The experiments based upon protocol 85.02 involved firstly stopping babies from breathing in when at "Functional Residual Capacity" (when they have breathed out) for 10 seconds on 10 different occasions. This was done with a face mask. It was done in both of two sleep states. The babies were subjected to 1.5% CO2 for 5 minutes in each sleep state. (normal CO2 level in air is 0.04%). Then they were given a 5 minute rest. Then the babies were subjected to 15% oxygen for 5 minutes. Normal atmospheric Oxygen is just under 21%. After this they were given 4% CO2 and the time was measured until they woke up or changed state."

"These experiments performed mainly on babies were not for the benefit of the babies, but to find out what effect it had. We have not been able to find any published results as to what happened to all of the children in Professor Southall's experiments and what overall impact the experimentation had on the babies and young children involved."

"Professor Southall has kept secret files known as Special Case files. These included medical records. This information needs to be transferred into the patients' medical records so that all the diagnoses are kept in one place and is available to benefit the patients."

"There are a large number of questions relating to the experiments of Professor Southall that need to be answered. However, I welcome South Wales Police in launching their investigation as part of the process of finding out the truth of what happened."

"I am calling for parents whose children were treated by professor Southall and suffered harm or were experimented on without the informed consent of their parents to write to me at John Hemming MP, House of Commons, London SW1 0AA so I can pass the information to the appropriate police forces."
___

OP posts:
Bunglie · 23/08/2006 17:54

Many of you will remember me, Bunglie. I lost my children , both of them to False allegations of MSBP. Musnet was the first place I told my story and since then things have moved on, you will all know in due course.
What I am trying to say is PLEASE take note of the info that Penny has put up. IT IS TRUE.

IT IS ALSO HORRIFIC, You as parents need to keep a vigil, we as parents who are victims of this evil atrocity can just pray that it stops soon.
Margaret Hodge promised us an investigation when Meadows was exposed, but we did not get it.
I recently sat in court several inches away from Meadows as he appealed. I felt sick to my stomach. This man gave evidence against me, never spoke to me, my doctors or anyone who had ever treated me and he did not even read my medical notes.
I lost both of my children from a secret family court, due to Meadows lies. I had already been found innocent by a criminal court and the Judge added the comment that the case should never have been brought against me and it was obvious that I loved my children. I was found innocent through case not proved.

If you are accused of MSPB you have NO defense, you loose.

How many of you can imagine what it would be like to wake up tomorrow and find that your children had been freed for adoption because you trusted a hospital doctor?

You can not imagine the pain, I live with it daily and I am very grateful to people like Penny for all the work she has done on our behalf, so please, please read it. Then write to your M.P. or pass it on to any one who will listen.
I know that there are a lot of journalists on the Mumsnet site if you want the evidencse then go to MSBP.com and see for yourself.

IT IS UNBELIEVABLE.

If I can stop one more mother going through what so many of us have had to endure and still be gagged by the courts I will.

Please do not dismiss this thread or what has been posted it is so very important and we need people to get the word out.

I don't know what else I can say except I hope that those of you that helped me, suported me and gave me the strength to fight the system that stole my children will do this for people like the Hardinghams as it is still going on today.

Lots of love to you all, Bunglie XX

hellywobs · 24/08/2006 15:33

I'm sure that journalists would take this seriously if it were true - there is clearly not enough evidence. They're not going to risk a lawsuit unless they are sure of the facts.

It sounds horrendous and I have already posted on here expressing the wish that people would spend more time getting annoyed about our secretive family courts than the flippin MMR non-debate and I think there were 11 responses (when you'd get 100+ for an MMR thread) - I was pretty disappointed - far more serious than Lady Voldemort trying to close MN down as well.

So if anyone has any more evidence for goodness sake get it in the public domain and lets get these a*holes behind bars. Harold Shipman got his comeuppance eventually, Roy Meadows may have got off the hook but no-one will use him as an expert witness again.

Out of interest was this the guy who claimed having watched Sally Clark's husband on TV that he must have killed the two boys?

expatinscotland · 24/08/2006 15:37

Bump

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 24/08/2006 15:57

Yes hellywobs it is the same guy.

Bunglie · 24/08/2006 16:06

Hellywobs you are so right.

The evidence IS ON THE MSPB.com site.

There are Jpegs of ALL the documents prooving it and they have now been got as they were kept at Kew, locked up under a 30 years FOI rule.

It is heavy going but if you want to know where something is then contact Penny, she knows where it has all been posted.

W do have the proof NOW! and a lot of people have worked hard to get it.

I would hate to think that anyone would think that I was scaremongering, but to be honest I think parents should be scared.

ust because it is not right and people think that those responsible have been caught, such as Southall and Meadows this is NOT the case.

What about The Hardinghams?

Parents are STILL being accused of MSPB and loosing their children forever because they argued with a doctor or a social worker.

Parents should NOT be afraid to take their children to the doctor.
Child abuse DOES exist, Doctors should not be frightened to give evidence in REAL cases.

The whole system needs sorting out and Family courts MUST IMHO be made public.

I do not know how we stop this 'witch hunt' but it is still going on today and if you have children can you imagine how it must feel to have them taken away, adopted and legally you are no longer a parent. Your children are gone and many of them end up damaged through the trauma of it all.

Please,please read as much as you can stomach. Contact Penny if you want something answered. write to your M.P. but if this is ever going to end we really as parents should protect our children and not be scared of doctors or doctors be scared of acusing a parent when REAL child abuse happens.

Please do not think I am scaremongering, I am not, that is not my intention. I live with the pain of knowing that my children will never come back to me, they believe I have MSPB and I can not even tell them the truth of what happened all those years ago.

As parents we are gagged.

I love both of my children more than I can express. You Mumsnetters have shown me so much support in the past and helped others, Postsue, Cheeseball, Spudbrain and Incognito all came to mumsnet as you did not condemn us but helped us get through those dark days.

The light at the end of the tunnel is starting to flicker so please help and don't let the flame go out.

With love to you all,
Bunglie XX

PennyM · 24/08/2006 17:51

The evidence is all there-the media-well they can wait-far more important things to do in the next 24 hours-as to not believing it-well email me and I'll send you what I can't post for legal reasons.

OP posts:
Bunglie · 25/08/2006 13:25

Apparently it is worth keeping an eye on the media as from today?

I have seen the evidence and I ask you to believe that this horific thing happened and many mothers have been unjustly seperated from their children. Once your child has been adopted I can not express the pain that you feel but worse still is the trauma that your children are going through. All the time you know as a parent that you did nothing wrong except were perhaps too persistant to get a doctor to treat your child. Most health officials like doctors and nurses will say that a mother is the best person to judge their babies/childs health but a lot of women are frightened now and with good cause.

I have heard people say that the woman freed due to Meadows 'dodgy statistics' were not really innocent and got off on a technicality. I have seen the evidence.

Please remember that I was cleared by a criminal court and the the case was thrown out as being 'not prooved' but as my children were made wards of court whilst they investigated me they came up with the diagnosis MSPB only AFTER I had been cleared by the criminal courts, they had hoped that I would be found guilty and then they could have my children adopted.

I did nothing, I was innocent but I lost my children at the final Wardship hearing in the secret family courts. Meadows gave 2 days of oral evidence against me. Meadows never even met me, spoke to me or any doctor who had treated me. My medical notes were made available but he declined to read them. He had made up his mind and he told the court that if I had the illness that they 'my doctors' say I have it would be a miracle as it is so exceptionally rare. (there are now 17 people in the world with it). I am in a wheel chair and have had three biopsies giving a positive diagnosis but I could not get treatment until I moved home as I have the label MSPB attatched to me. Someone posted that Meadows had got away. He has not I still have a case going through the GMC against him even under the new restrictions.

I have asked you all for so much in the past and you have helped me but this is really the most important thing I am asking you to do and that is tell people, any one who will listen even if it is just a neighbour. This is a national scandel that has been hidden and anyone who contradicted these doctors lost their children to MSPB allegations.

You are mothers, you have loving children all different and I hope and pray that none of you ever experience this, but I wondered if the mumsnetter who emailed me, sorry I lost your email address, but she does a lot of work with Autistic children and MSPB crosses her doorstep from time to time, if she could possibly take Penny's information and the latest findings to her group.

Does it not seem strange to you all that the prosecution in these cases are having a hard time now finding expert witnesses and yet we have them queueing up to help us?

Earl Howe is chairing and enquirey with John Hemmings M.P. If you know of a case, have been accused or have a view on this then please write to them. You can email them at the Houses of Parliament.

I think, I hope and I pray that the MSBP bubble has burst or at least got a slow leak, but it will get burried and forgotten if we do not keep it in the public domain.

I have lost my children and they do not want to know the truth as they think that they know. They only know what they have been told and that is that I tried to harm my daughter. I love my daughter more than words can express and yet both of my children have been damaged by their adoption.

I feel helpless to help them, I am legally not a mother and yet I think of them daily and I cry for the pain that they have had to endure.

Please read the documents and just because it is not nice do not ignore it. We are so close now and we need to stop this happening again. Only recently Nicky hardinghams family were gagged and she lost 3 children who were adopted and she may very well loose her new baby. She has the evidence that she did nothing and that their is 'brittle bone' disease in the family. She does not deserve to loose another child but is prevented from speaking out so she needs our help to speak for her.(The Real Story, on TV?)

It is simple just tell people and stop it happening to anyone else.

I know I have gone on....and on....and on but I do not know how to express myself here. In the past you have helped me personally and I love you all for it but as a group of mothers you are a formidable force and your voice does count so please make it heard.

With much love from Bunglie XX

P.S. Please give me a spell checker mumsnet!

expatinscotland · 25/08/2006 13:27

Bumping again to keep this active b/c people need to see it!

MarsLady · 25/08/2006 13:43

bump

hellywobs · 25/08/2006 13:51

The whole idea that I could lose my son for good (or at least until he's 18 and would hopefully be old enough to understand and believe the truth) is too horrendous to contemplate. It appalls me that families are torn apart on the whim of a social worker/doctor (when there is so much REAL child abuse going on). I remember the story of a family where the younger child fell off a bed and hurt his head and the doctors of course said it was the parents' fault. The 5 year old older child told social workers their parents were telling the truth but the social workers said the child must be lying as well. Fortunately in that case the grandparents were able to take the children and after I think about 8 months the parents got their children back. The whole issue needs sorting out.

Perhaps we MNers should write a letter to the government and sign it electronically demanding action? I do know they are considering what to do but it's all too slow (illegal wars in Iraq are far more important of course).

Bunglie · 25/08/2006 14:11

Thank you Hellywobs.

I lived for years every day for my 'lost children' in the hope that when they were 18 they would be mine again and come home to me.

It never crossed my mind for a second that they would not want to. That they did not seeme as their mother and that they believed the lies that they had been told about me. Nothing prepared me for this rejection and it was like loosing them all over again.
This is why I want everyone to know the truth my children have been damaged and they will not speak to me. My son is having problems and says he does not know who to believe but on his 18th birthday he was 'thrown out' of his adoptive parents home as they no longer got any money for having him. They wanted a little girl but he came along in the package. His sister has always been favourite but she will only speak to me on the condition that I mention nothing pre-adoption. My son is now living in a bedsit and he contacts me when he has run out of money and I send him money and a Tesco food parcel. He knows I will always send him some money and he plays on this as he knows I feel guilty about him.

I have just realised in the last few days that I will if I am very lucky be a guest at my daughters wedding as she has found a 37 year old boyfriend (who already has children) and she is only 19 and she wants to marry him. Could you be an observer at your childrens wedding and watch people who have hated you and told your children lies about you be their parent? I do not know if I can.

The pain does not stop I wish it did.

ANYTHING that any of you can do to keep this in the public domain will be appreciated.

Many thanks to you all, Bunglie XX

CaligulaCorday · 25/08/2006 14:14

Bumping this.

PennyM · 25/08/2006 19:08

If your child has been treated or has had any involvement with David Southall at all can you please contact South Wales Police on the email below and answer there questions. Thankyou. Anyone wanting the original letter please contact me via email [email protected]

www.bbc.co.uk/england/realmedia/midlandstoday/bulletin.ram

South Wales Police Heddlu De Cymru

Working with the Community Cydweithio Gyda?r Gymuned

Public Protection Unit
Central Police Station
King Edward VII Avenue
Cathays Park
CARDIFF
CF10 3NN

Telephone (029) 20527272

10th August 2006

Dear

South Wales Police are currently investigating an allegation of assault on a young boy that may have occurred whilst undergoing treatment by Professor David Southall at the University Hospital of Wales.

I have been given your details by Mr William BACHE, Solicitor, who assures me that he has your authority for me to make contact with you.

I would be obliged if I could be provided with certain replies to the below questions. I must emphasise that South Wales Police are not carrying out an enquiry into Professor Southall, but are investigating one allegation of assault carried out in our force area. It may well transpire that further enquiries are carried out in the future if document dictate that to be the appropriate course of action. Please reply via email if you wish or I have enclosed a S.A.E.for your convenience.

  1. Has your child been treated directly or indirectly by Professor Southall.
  2. If yes please outline the document of that treatment.
  3. Did your child suffer any injuries or adverse effects from that treatment.
  4. Have you reported this matter to the Police or any other body such as the GMC (please specify).
  5. If you reported the matter to the police i) which force ii) when iii) have you details of an investigating officer or any other means of reference iv) Result of the Police investigation

My apologies for being brief and to the point, but I am sure you appreciate the complexities of this enquiry.

Yours faithfully

Chris Mullane
DETECTIVE INSPECTOR
[email protected]

OP posts:
Bunglie · 26/08/2006 11:54

Now do you think the Police would be circulating this letter if the accusations were not true?

OH Mumsnet have pity on a poor Bunglie and give her a spellchecker?

Pixiefish · 26/08/2006 12:06

Lovely to see you again Bunglie but sorry it's in these circumstances.

Bumping this so that people can see it as its vitally important

xx

Love and hugs Bunglie

Bunglie · 26/08/2006 12:42

Thanks Pixie fish....you are an angel

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