Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 - Thread 5

[KenAdams]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

Posting this link again which shows where the satellite "pinger" is.

static.stuff.co.nz/files/MH370graphic17.jpg

Thanks JKS.

I'm trying to understand why a huge great aeroplane would apparently go silent whilst heading north and yet continue to ping out information which implies it continues to fly for many more hours, and probably southward.

I wonder how long it will be before major changes are made to the black box. Equipping it with a floatation device, recording events for longer than two hours, making it impossible to stop the power for recording once in flight, for example.

Garlic, Occam's Razor?

You think "The Pentagon did it" is the simplest explanation?

Lou just to expand on what JKS said.

The contact with the satellite is there to send data on the engines back to Roll Royce. However it is a subscription service and MH are not subscribed to that. So it is widely believed that all the Inmarsat satellite does is send a message asking " are you there?" To the plane and it replies "I'm here." No data is sent.

Had they subscribed to the service the pings would include data on the engines performance and that would tell us much more about what the plane was doing.

If deliberate acts are involved I suppose it's not much of a jump to presume that even if the person responsible knew about this tracking system they could mistakenly believe that not being subscribed means no tracking/contact at all. I don't know if it is possible to disable it.

If catastrophic event is to blame, it is indeed a separate system set away from the area where the ACARS and transponder equipment is.

This is becoming farcical. Did they not think that most of the large plane parts would have sunk hours after the plane crashed?

Does anyone else think the pings are a red herring?

"Does anyone else think the pings are a red herring?"

In what way?

Doctrine in the respect of Occam's razor I absolutely agree with you. That link provided the biggest conspiracy theory I have read so far. It is certainly not the simplistic explanation.

Thanks Doctrine.

I understand where the satellite is and how the arcs are created due to the distance from transmitter to receiver. I'm just struggling to understand why the pinger was not disabled at the same time as other detection equipment. If it were all in the same place it wouldn't make sense, but as the pinger is located a different, less accessible area of the plane, and is not widely known about then that would make more sense.

Sorry if my questions have already been answered. I'm on my mobile so most diagrams are tiny and I'm not taking everything in. And I didn't really do science at school - making paper aeroplanes was about as close as we came to learning about flight .

You MNers have thought me loads over the last few years!

Downton Thank you.

"the technology that allows planes to land themselves on autopilot does exist, but I don't think its been deployed on many commercial airliners yet."

To the best of my knowledge it's deployed on at least 7,500 airliners int he global fleet.

"Problem is we don't know."

My emphasis on your post, Achyfox. You're completely right. We don't know the error on Inmarsat's equipment. I think it's reasonable to bet, though, that Inmarsat probably does, and they are integral to the investigative process.

Pilot suicide does fit in most ways. I asked earlier (earlier thread) about life insurance, and a poster said that the insurance would still pay out if the pilot had committed suicide.

It still seems odd though, to me, I can't get my head around why someone would choose to do it in a plane full of innocent people (I'm aware there are precedents for this though).

I really hope that today they manage to find this debris, for the sake of all the families. To see them is heartbreaking, some of them are just clinging to the hope that their loved ones are still alive.

pilot suicide does not fit. the pilot was someone who supported the rights of others oppressed in his own nation despite himself being in the privileged position. re: he put others ahead of his own interests. he was politically active in a pro democracy fashion that is usually about belief in human rights, justice and ethical governing.

he was a decent man and he'd been flying for ages - as in he'd kept up a professional position for a very long time without marks on his record or any known indications of mental health problems etc.

the idea that such a man would go from that to murdering hundreds of innocent people is ridiculous and insulting and frankly smacks of racism or 'exotification' a bit in the same way as the DM type reporting that immediately equates being politically active with extremism if your skin is not white or you're a muslim. the man was politically sound, ethical, a long standing professional and someone with clear history of caring about others and being willing to stand and do something for others. then he's concluded to be a murdering psychopath because he went to trial and maybe/not maybe/speculation had some marital issues?

went to a trial that should say.

in terms of occums razor for me it's that if it wasn't a crash, if it disappeared from radar (despite being seriously watched skies by intelligence agencies based in the area) then who has the technology to make a plane disappear is the logical simplest question.

and if vital satellite data known to military wasn't released for 4 days you don't scramble around saying ooh maybe x, y and other ridiculous theory z is the reason you ask why it was repressed for 4 days in terms of who has the power to do that and for what purpose.

they are actually the simplest answers if you go past the governments are good and wouldn't do anything wrong barrier.

Sorry honey, but that's rubbish pilot suicide would be suggested no matter what colour of skin the pilot or co pilot had. You're making massive assumptions about the pilot's character based on "facts" you have read in the papers, we don't know he's a good guy. And what about the co pilot, we know fewer "facts" about him, it could have been him.

I'm going with the fire option as the most likely, although the turn over sea doesn't really fit. Pilot suicide is a close second though.

And as for a conspiracy theory being the simplest explanation .

"the idea that such a man would go from that to murdering hundreds of innocent people is ridiculous and insulting and frankly smacks of racism or 'exotification' "

Bollocks does it.

Pilot suicide has caused planes to crash in the past. So has hijacking. So have fires. So has damage to the fuselage. So has pilot error.

So mentioning all these theories isn't racist.

The way that the DM talks about them may well be and probably is racist, though, not arguing on that point.

In answer to the pings, goldie explained that way back on thread 2 I think

The equipment that sends the ping is not the same as the other two transponders and is located somewhere different I think. That is one reason why it could point towards foul play as the pilot or hijacker or whoever would know to disable the transponders but they wouldn't know about the ping.

I can't remember the technical details but I think that's the gist of it.

trixy I think Honey is getting at the fact that too much blame is being assigned to pilots when for all we know they could be heroes and or victims of a tragic accident. It is very hard to see what we can only assume to be innocent people being dragged through the press and maligned or the target of suicide claims, damaging for the families of those involved.

We may never know what happened. But one of the good things the Malaysian government said was innocent until proven guilty.

Racism? No.

The plane being lost right at the ATC boundary, the transponders being disabled, turns being executed and evading radar...well it suggests someone was in charge of the plane- someone very knowlegable. There were 2 people in the flight deck who had such knowledge.

It's possible it was nothing to do with them (and fwiw the pilot did seem like a really nice guy, the first officer I don't know much about) but you have to look at all eventualities and this is the simplest explanation.

I don't know what to believe but this scenario cannot be ruled out.

Let me make it clear- it could have been either the pilot or first officer. If they were English or African or Chinese the same assumption would be made. It is in no way based on their race!

I agree, it must be dreadful for the pilot's families having such speculation. I still veer towards the pilots being heroes dealing with a fire/decompression.

But to my mind if it was pilot suicide he must have been under a huge amount of mental stress and not himself, and deserving of sympathy not blame.

I do not buy the pilot suicide theory either. I have no idea along with millions of others what did happen. Unless the suicide theory is proven beyond all reasonable doubt I actually think it's disrespectful to even think that. Pilots are trained to ensure the safety and survival of their passengers not kill over 200 of them in a mindless accident.

I'm with the innocent until guilty train of thought and heaven forbid if it is that, I will be utterly shocked.

Hoping today brings some news for those poor families

I agree with Honey. Certainly she may be making assumptions that the pilot is a decent guy based on what she has read - an assumption that I have also made - but equally there is no evidence to suggest that either of the pilots are bad guys and have ever shown any signs of wanting to commit suicide and murder hundreds of people in their wake.

The pilots' families and friends are also grieving. How distressing for them to know that people are speculating that their loved ones, who they must be so proud of, are psychopaths responsible for such a heinous act.

Fair enough, put it forward as a theory, but whoever does this should make it clear that the pilots had a previous good character and there is no evidence of a motive.

Of course the pilots could be heroes in all this- if there was a hijack attempt and they diverted the plane for example, or they were just trying to cope with circumstances beyond their control.

I'm not casting aspersions on the character of the pilots, there is no evidence that they were suicidal/homicidal and the pilot especially seemed like a good guy from what has been said.

All I'm saying is that it can't be ruled out at this stage.

There are many potential explanations, most of them fit in some ways and don't in others. Sadly we may never know what actually happened.

I've been lurking on all the threads

Just come on here to say there's an announcement on the news now from the Malaysian govt saying the Chinese have located a large floating object.

Does anyone else feel really sorry for the Malaysian spokespeople. They seem totally overwhelmed and out of their depth.

The Malaysian minister said that the Chinese govt will make a new announcement very soon.

He was bombarded with questions, and held up a hand written note saying "This is all I have, I have told you all I know". I felt really sorry for him.