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News

Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370... Thread 4

982 replies

GoldieMumbles · 18/03/2014 18:37

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread3

OP posts:
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6
QueenStromba · 20/03/2014 13:03

And I found the china times link from Rapture Forums.

Jjuice · 20/03/2014 13:04

saga

11.03.14 13.06 poster fits

Spacefrog35 · 20/03/2014 13:05

saga it's post No #1374

DowntonTrout · 20/03/2014 13:06

What? Oh hell. I'm a goner.

DowntonTrout · 20/03/2014 13:07

^ that was to Sinistersal

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 20/03/2014 13:07

Sorry my tin foil hat slipped over my eyes...I see it now.

meditrina · 20/03/2014 13:10

Is there a current US military presence in Utapao? The US vacated it in the 1970s, and were talking in 2012 about plans to use it again, but (other than putting some military flights through it from time to time) did they ever establish permanent base?

Or is this all a garble for the Thais having some data (perhaps the radar data they admitted some days in)?

Spacefrog35 · 20/03/2014 13:13

taken from Wikipedia so not sure of the accuracy
"For several years, beginning in 1981, U-Tapao has hosted parts of Operation Cobra Gold – the largest U.S. military peacetime exercise in the Pacific – jointly involving U.S., Singaporean, and Thai forces, and designed to build ties between the nations and promote interoperability between their military components."

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 20/03/2014 13:14

Right DH is making me go for a walk in the chem-trailed fresh air. I think he's worried about me obsessively pressing refresh on the thread and googling weird things.

Catch up with you fellow TFH'ers all later.

livingzuid · 20/03/2014 13:15

meditrina, it says on Wikipedia that there's a multinational group there now which is a based owned by the Thai air force. There are US personnel as part of that. But not much info unsurprisingly. It's still Wikipedia so even though referenced may not be that reliable.

'For several years, beginning in 1981, U-Tapao has hosted parts of Operation Cobra Gold – the largest U.S. military peacetime exercise in the Pacific – jointly involving U.S., Singaporean, and Thai forces, and designed to build ties between the nations and promote interoperability between their military components.

Thailand is an important element in the Pentagon's new strategy of "forward positioning". Despite Thailand's neutrality on the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Thai government allowed U-Tapao to be used by American warplanes flying into combat in Iraq, as it had earlier done during the war in Afghanistan. In addition, U-Tapao may be where Al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah was interrogated, according to some retired American intelligence officials.[3]

A multinational force headquarters was established at U-Tapao to coordinate humanitarian aid for the Sumatran Tsunami of 26 December 2004.

On 7 May 2008, in the aftermath of Cyclone Nargis, Thai C-130 transports were permitted to land at Yangon International Airport in Burma, carrying drinking water and construction material.[4] From 12 to 20 May, USAID and the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) coordinated the delivery of nearly $1.2 million of U.S. relief commodities to Yangon on 36 DOD C-130 flights, with supplies sufficient to provide assistance to more than 113,000 beneficiaries. The DOD efforts were under the direction of Joint Task Force Caring Response.[5]

As of 26 June 2008, United States assistance directed by the USAID DART (Disaster Assistance Response Team) stationed in Thailand, had totaled $41,169,769.[6] Units involved were the 36th Airlift Squadron (36 AS) of the 374th Airlift Wing (374 AW) from Yokota Air Base, Japan, flying C-130H Hercules; and Marine Aerial Refueler Transport Squadron 152 (VMGR-152) from Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, Okinawa, Japan, flying the Lockheed Martin KC-130R and the newer KC-130J.

In 2012, a proposal for the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) to use the military capacities to support weather research was canceled.[7]'

livingzuid · 20/03/2014 13:16

Sorry spacefrog X Post.

cargotrousers · 20/03/2014 13:23

Just heard a sea captain whose sister was on the plane saying he doesn't believe the wreckage is the plane, that he sails those waters and they are renowned for being full of sea garbage and such. So strange. I think I might dust off my OFRS...

cargotrousers · 20/03/2014 13:23

Radio 4 abt 10 mins ago

meditrina · 20/03/2014 13:27

Thanks - sounds like small presence, possibly in a multinational unit, does involve flying, no suggestion of advanced capabilities.

livingzuid · 20/03/2014 13:34

Wall Street Journal is saying the opposite of the BBC in that they knew about these images for days and failed to act. Very interesting article.

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304026304579449680167673144?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304026304579449680167673144.html

DowntonTrout · 20/03/2014 13:35

There was no suggestion of radar or advanced listening capabilities in the report either.

Just that it was picked up on a radio frequency.

livingzuid · 20/03/2014 13:35

And very very critical of Malaysian govt.

Search is over for the day, BBC confirms.

QueenStromba · 20/03/2014 13:36

Maybe the PPRuNe thread was pulled because it gave away some sensitive information about U-Tapao.

livingzuid · 20/03/2014 13:37

Text from WSJ for immediate reading:

Four days went by before officials acted on satellite data showing Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -2.08% Flight 370 flew for several hours away from the area being covered by a massive international search, people familiar with the matter said—a delay from which investigators are still working to recover.

The satellite's operator, Britain's Inmarsat ISAT.LN -0.35% PLC, on March 11 turned over to a partner company its data analysis and other documents indicating that the plane wasn't anywhere near the areas on either side of Malaysia where more countries and ships had been searching for three days since the plane disappeared. The documents included a map showing two divergent north and south corridors for the plane's route stretching some 3,000 miles from the plane's last previously known location, the people said.

The information was relayed to Malaysian officials by Wednesday, March 12, the people said. Inmarsat also shared the same information with British security and air-safety officials on Wednesday, according to two of the people, who were briefed on the investigation.

Two additional people familiar with the Malaysian side of the probe said the information could have arrived in Kuala Lumpur as late as the morning of March 13.

Malaysia's government, concerned about corroborating the data and dealing with internal disagreements about how much information to release, didn't publicly acknowledge Inmarsat's information until March 15, during a news conference with Prime Minister Najib Razak. Malaysia began to redirect the search effort that day to focus on the areas the information described, and said for the first time that deliberate actions were involved in the plane's disappearance.

The disclosures about how the information made its way into the investigation underline how international efforts to find the plane have been repeatedly marred by distrust among the countries involved, confusion in many of Malaysia's public statements, and criticism from many countries that has led some to suspend or change their search efforts in frustration.

The lost days and wasted resources have threatened to impede the investigation, according to some officials involved with the probe.

The delay also means that 12 days after Flight 370 vanished, investigators are still refining search maps, dividing regions to cover and seeking satellite-surveillance records from several countries along the routes the aircraft is now suspected of taking.

Another government official said Malaysia was cautious about revealing and acting on the data because "we don't want to upset anybody with round after round of confusing information."

U.S. national-security officials haven't commented on information-sharing issues. Britain's Ministry of Defense had no immediate comment and its air-crash investigation agency, which has been invited to assist in the probe, said it couldn't comment on "an ongoing investigation."

China's government has complained about Malaysia's response, with Premier Li Keqiang on Monday urging Mr. Najib to provide "more detailed information in its possession, including third-party information, in a timely, accurate and comprehensive manner," according to China's official Xinhua news agency. China's foreign ministry didn't immediately respond to a request to comment late Wednesday.

Within hours of Flight 370's disappearance on March 8, Inmarsat started searching for clues. What little data it had on the short flight before it disappeared was provided to SITA, a Swiss aviation IT company, on the same day, Inmarsat said.

Late that weekend, Inmarsat's team delved into its databases to retrieve periodic "pings," akin to digital handshakes between the plane, a satellite and a ground station, said an industry official briefed on the investigation. The hourly signals provided a crucial clue that the missing 777 most likely remained intact with its engines presumably running hours after it lost contact with civilian radar.

Inmarsat Senior Vice President Chris McLaughlin said that on Monday, March 10, it began extrapolating the location of the jetliner using the aircraft's changing angle and distance to the satellite, which orbits more than 22,000 miles above a point in the Indian Ocean. Mr. McLaughlin said the data was shared the following day with SITA, which in turn shared it with Malaysian officials.

At that point, the search was still focused primarily in waters east of the Malay Peninsula, and Malaysian officials hadn't confirmed reports that Flight 370 had altered its course to Beijing about an hour after takeoff to fly west across the peninsula. Inmarsat's package showed not only that the plane had continued flying for hours, but that it had made an even more radical course change later, ending up along one of two possible corridors, one heading northwest toward Kazakhstan and the other curving far south over the Indian Ocean.

The Inmarsat package, which included a map of the twin north and south corridors, together with readouts of data from a communication satellite, demonstrated the need for a dramatic shift in search areas, according to people briefed on the investigation.

One person said Malaysia chose not to disclose what it considered raw data, preferring to check it first with international partners.

Mr. Najib, the prime minister, had instructed his officials early on that all information coming in be corroborated with agencies such as the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration before releasing the information publicly, Malaysian officials say. They say that was intended to minimize red herrings in the search.

Complicating matters, Chinese satellite images released last Wednesday showed suspected floating debris from the plane. Though the images turned out to be dead ends, they distracted investigators and delayed announcement of Inmarsat's findings, according to one person close to the situation.

Inmarsat officials, meanwhile, became concerned the data weren't being acted upon quickly enough to help overhaul the search, according to a person familiar with the sequence of events. It turned last Wednesday to U.K. security authorities to more quickly disseminate the data, according to two industry officials. Malaysia Airlines, in turn, instructed SITA to use the U.K. Air Accidents Investigation Branch as the primary conduit for Inmarsat's data, one of these officials said.

Publicly, Malaysian officials gave little new information. Asked last Thursday what data from the aircraft investigators were relying on, Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya said "no more systems from the plane" had provided information about the jet's whereabouts.That day, Malaysia's acting transport minister said that "whenever there are new details they must be corroborated."

Throughout this process, the basic theory and underlying data from Inmarsat didn't change significantly, according to three people briefed on the investigation.Rather, the days were spent verifying data and attempting to combine it with estimated fuel consumption to derive more-precise projections of how far the plane could have flown.

"The material was refined, but it wasn't demonstrably different" from what Inmarsat first proposed earlier that week, according to one of these people.

It wasn't clear how U.S. officials obtained the initial Inmarsat data, which they analyzed and helped translate into maps. Regardless, people briefed on the probe agree it took longer than expected for the information to spread from engineers and technical experts who cranked out the first version of the data to policy makers and then back down to officials directing specific elements of the searches.

Spacefrog35 · 20/03/2014 13:44

I'm absolutely shocked that there is no 'neutral' agency to step in when things like this happen. Malaysia aren't doing brilliantly, true, but I very much doubt that many other countries (UK included) would do significantly better when faced with something fairly unprecedented with limited resources.

It's totally understandable that governments (especially given unrest and anti government protests in several of the countries involved) are reluctant to 'give away' information that could compromise their position but surely there should be some method of pooling information even anonymously? It also seems incredible that there is still no single 'agency' governing the search, the Malaysian government are reliant on other countries doing what they fancy in order to get waters searched/satellite images viewed etc.

I think this frightens me almost more than what happened to the plane Sad

mileysorearse · 20/03/2014 13:45

Isn't the WSJ talking about ping data from Inmarsat not the images?

member · 20/03/2014 13:46

The cynic in me also thinks it was convenient that the latest info re the debris was released just after the debacle in the press conference yesterday with the relatives; even allowing time for some assessment of the sat images captured on 16th March.

member · 20/03/2014 13:47

That's what I think too Miley

GarlicMarchHare · 20/03/2014 13:51

Yes, Miley, it is. The partner company would have been Rolls Royce, I think. I recall Inmarsat giving statements right at the beginning, and RR saying they were making all data available to the authorities, but would not share it publicly.

Since Inmarsat provided a commercial service, it has less to lose by sharing information than military installations.

Can you imagine how pissed off all those ships & plane owners must be, the amount of time they've been sent on wild goose chases?!

GarlicMarchHare · 20/03/2014 13:56

My current tinfoil hat suggests: Plane was carrying sensitive cargo. Surreptitious re-route to Diego Garcia was planned & executed. (DG because communications are tightly controlled.) Next? Dunno. Plane sent off again, empty, with autopilot set to straight ahead? A decoy plane sent off bearing the satcom antenna from MH370? Don't even know if that's possible.