Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370... Thread 4

[GoldieMumbles]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread3

Just a thought (sorry if already answered this), but if RR have data transmitted to them from the engines, would Boeing have data transmitted to them from the flight management system?

I'm kind of torn with sympathy for the Malaysian authorities and knowing how things work in that region and democracy is a bit of a veneer. They really are having the most horrendous task of trying to coordinate the search, sitting between two superpowers (US and China) and all the crap regional politics that exist and are hampering the search.

On the other hand, people who don't toe the line aren't treated particularly well. They have got a massive PR disaster on their hands if they don't get dealing with the relatives right, not even taking into account the missing plane.

Sad all round. And fwiw I don't think there are survivors :(

Hickorychicken, as far as I can tell, the scenarios for the passengers being alive are very limited.

1. the plane crashed/crash landed somewhere (jungle or whatever) and there are survivors. They have not been able to make contact for whatever reason, and the pilots were not able to communicate at all in the time between the last communication and the time they crashed in the middle of no-where...

1. the plane was hijacked and the hijackers still have the passengers alive somewhere. Ransom demands have not surfaced and thus it seems increasingly unlikely with each passing day that this is the case.

I do not think those people are alive, as much as we can all hope.

Etainagain no idea, but it might be a question for goldie if she can answer it.

Living, yes, I did read that, but it does not appear to really say much. I guess that waypoint mentioned is where it suddenly changed course. All that statement says is that there were no documented waypoints schelduled for the rest of the journey to Beijing. It says nothing about possible un scheduled ones, iyswim.

And firstchoice agree. Poor taste indeed. All that reinforces for me is the US's seemingly trigger happy approach.

Do you think the relatives being prevented from talking to the press is just down to shocking handling by the Malaysians, or on orders from the Chinese govt which resulted in shocking handling by the Malaysians?

Psammead -
I had hoped that option 1. above might be the case, but that hope is fading for me.

livingzuid -
I appreciate your knowledge of 'how things work in that region' as I have no experience at all. I am sure, as you say, it is not so easy for the Malay authorities but, given the way the families are being treated, I cant help feeling they are not trying as hard as they could? It is very sad and no, I don't suppose there are survivors now, if there ever were.

Living good idea to ask Goldie. Do feel slightly bad though as I don't like putting her on the spot and I know she has to be very careful about what she says on here.

psammead ah yes see what you mean. There was a waypoint debate on the last thread I think.

I don't understand enough about it but there is this article from the NY Times from about 10 hours ago. But not sure if the confirmation from the ministry today means it is no longer relevant.

www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?_r=0

'According to investigators, it appears that a waypoint was added to the planned route. Pilots do that in the ordinary course of flying if air traffic controllers tell them to take a different route, to avoid weather or traffic. But in this case, the waypoint was far off the path to Beijing.

Whoever changed the plane’s course would have had to be familiar with Boeing aircraft, though not necessarily the 777 — the type of plane that disappeared. American officials and aviation experts said it was far-fetched to believe that a passenger could have reprogrammed the Flight Management System.'

Have just realised all my news channels are crap and I don't have enough Dutch to understand their news. Must try and find a feed from somewhere online.

Probably nothing fishy about the treatment of the relatives. Malaysia and China will be trying to prevent negative PR in a heavy handed way is all.

Having lived in South East Asia for a number of years, and having spent time in Malaysia, I think most of us in the West underestimate just how important 'loss of face is' and how much this influences what to us is at times rather odd behaviour.

Lots of family and friends around the whole of SE Asia :) lived there and visit there regularly. Everyone in KL is so jumpy right now, understandably. It's really quite a wonderful area but not for one minute do I think freedom of speech is the same as we know it. It's very dictatorial imo.

They are not dealing with this well at all in terms of press and PR. Nor are the families being treated properly, and they deserve a whole lot better.

I still don't understand properly about the satellite pings, how they work.

Am I right that the satellite "sees" lots of concentric circles, and just knows that a ping is from one of those circles, but not which point on its circumference? (And does it therefore follow that if something was directly below the satellite you could pinpoint pretty exactly where it was because the circle would be very small)

How wide are the circles, are there loads and loads of very narrow ones, or a few spread out ones.

I don't see how they can't use the data from the previous 6 hourly satellite pings to track some sort of direction. Or was it pinging in the same circle the whole time. Doesn't that mean it could also have been stationary the whole time, not flying for a further 7 hours?

They have certainly lost face now.

That's exactly it etainagain

jonathan it's similar to a computer talking to a modem from what I recall. An electronic handshake, no more than that.

So satellite sends a message to the onboard comupter (I think) saying, 'are you there?' and the computer responds to the satellite with a 'yes I am, thanks'. And that's it.

From what I have read there isn't enough data to see where that was sent from geographically.

sorry, didn't necessarily mean there was anything 'fishy' about the treatment of the relatives. I realise there are cultural differences and that 'loss of face' will be an even bigger factor there than it would in the West (and I think it is quite high here!).

But, as DowntonTrout (great name btw!) says, face has now been lost and I think they have scored an own goal on that one, as well as being actively cruel to the relatives, which is the bit that really bothers me.

Livingzuid still not sure I really get it.

Did anyone ales just see the pictures of the women being forcibly removed from the press conference?

It really shook me up, those women are missing their sons/brothers, etc. And this is how they're treated. Jesus wept I'm furious on their behalf.

I think it would be very unwise of anyone to think that we are being told the truth all the time, news outlets across the globe want to boost ratings first and foremost and if they haven't got any information then they will speculate to do this.

It's why, on other threads about completely different subjects, some of us bang on about not taking news articles as gospel and instead looking for peer reviewed research.

Having been involved in a few incidents which have been reported on in the media I have been amazed at how much they get wrong/make up/ dramatise things. One only the other week, the press just about got the location correct and nothing else. I would not have recognized the event as one at which I had been present.

In this situation, combine this with lack of information due to security issues plus different political cultures you can see why it is such a mess of misinformation and misdirection.

That's interesting on the timings livingzuid. When is your baby due, btw? Let's talk happy!

jonathan :) it literally is a signal that bounces back and forth between satellite and plane computer. Or 'pings' hence the expression. Nothing else. Will see if I can find something as there was a good article explaining how it all works.

Agree about the media point completely. It's frustrating to see the variation in reporting. Where did all the good journalists go :( I rely mainly on the Guardian and BBC and NY Times had some good stuff too.

It's also hugely corrupt out there which I think will also be slowing things down combined with the need to look good. Not that I think it's much better in the West but the corruption is more ouvert if that makes sense.

Oh and baby girl is due in June :) It feels like forever away...she is currently kicking me pretty hard all day and all night!

June is a great month for a birthday! (Mine too).