Can we have a Ukraine/ Russia/ Crimea thread for dummies?

[chicaguapa]

In other words, could someone explain the situation in really simple terms please. I don't understand it but feel it's important and I should know what's going on.

And because DD(12) asked me this morning and I couldn't answer.

sadly it appears that the Russian media pretend to believe their own propaganda about Russia and about Putin.

It certainly seems to stir up Russian nationalism. His popularity shot up after his latest military adventure.

Just been watching France24, that well known Kremlin mouthpiesce, and they're reporting that European business leaders are warning against sanctions as that will lead to Russia trading with China instead. Just like I said a month ago.

Thanks for all the links to the BBC, the official voice of the British government. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid PJ, and thanks for being a corporate apologist.

Note: I'm not pro Putin, I'm anti foreign intervention.

does France24 say "Russia did not invade Ukraine" or "those thousands of armed men in uniforms and tanks with no insignia were local self-defence volunteers who bought their tanks and uniforms in a shop?" like the other "Kremlin mouthpieces"

Western fascination with Putin is ridiculous. Just an iron rod for all the frustration of failed foreign policy vis-s-vis Russia.

Any leader pursuing policies in Russia's interests would be vilified. This is the tenet of Brzezinski doctrine.

any leader that uses a vast army to invade its neighbours must expect to be vilified.

shoes

RT is reporting that Russia is pulling troops back from the Ukranian border and NATO is sending troops east toward Crimea.

Before you yell Kremlin mouthpiece PJ, look on Youtube for the interview between Cenk Uygur and Abby Martin.

yes, I was interested to read "Ukraine crisis: No sign of Russian troop pullout - Nato"

Wow, just read in Financial Times that Timoshenko polls 8.2% in presidential opinion polls, behind the boxer, Klitchko with 8.9%, who pullout of the race because of his unpopularity. The leading candidate, the oligarch Poroshenko polls 24.9%...

I wonder whether Darth Vader will indeed capture the majority of votes then.... they call him 'comrade'.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/31/ukraine-darth-vader-president-internet-party

I wonder if John Kerry is opposed to this invasion. Of course he isn't, democracy in Bahrain would hit US corporate interests.

you should start a thread about it, if you're interested.

HopefulGoat, I agree with your comment about the result of western mismanagement of unrest and the screwing of the natives in favour of returns for he hedge funds.

Very interesting to see Tymoshenko trailing and Poroshenko ahead. Since Klitschko endorsed Poroshenko, I wonder if Poroshenko is Germany's choice too.

While Poroshenko has appealed to Tymoshenko to drop out and endorse him, it is possible that those of her followers who liked her idea of nuking Russian speakers will transfer their allegiance to the Right.

The reluctance of European business leaders to hop aboard the sanctions wagon will make Germany and France think twice about whatever NATO has in mind wrt Crimea as well as any increase in sanctions. The Socialists recently got hammered in French municipal elections, with notable gains for the far right and gains expected in European Parliament elections in May, and Merkel is in power in a shaky and most unlikely three party coalition.

since Ukraine foolishly gave their nukes to Russia, the angry words in an edited, bugged phone call are totally worthless, except as propaganda from the buggers.

Sturm und Drang in Kiev. I have to admit the story of a self inflicted fatal shot to the heart sounds like baloney to me too.

'Volodymyr Parasyuk, self-defence leader', but not a member of Right Sector, is credited with putting the fear of God crossways in Yanukovich, contributing to his decision to leg it. He appealed to the Right Sector to get its act together, which is interesting because he clearly sees a role for them as time goes on.

Decent reporting but wrong conclusion on the continued existence of the Maidan encampment in Kiev. The author is right to suspect that 'Until the people have had a chance to vote in a new president, many protest leaders will continue to see themselves as the guardians of the people, almost to the point that they have veto power over major decisions.' Parasyuk has said as much and predicts the encampment will remain even after the presidential election.

The conclusion that Putin wants to see it all folded up and dispersed is wrong. As long as it is there and as long as there are a bunch of yahoos like Right Sector marching around Kiev in their paramilitary duds, Putin is rubbing his hands together in glee because it shows that the interim government is only there because a motley collection of possibly armed groups has decided it is their best bet for the time being.

yahoos ...marching around...in their paramilitary duds... a motley collection of possibly armed groups

Rather like the armed gangs of Crimea you mean?

The 'government of Ukraine' no doubt wishes the unruly forces in Kiev were as well trained and disciplined and under control and as committed to upholding law and order and supporting the democratically elected administration as the uniformed personnel in Crimea are. The continued existence of the encampment is an embarrassment to the Yatseniuk government, a constant reminder of the limits of its hold on the country.

You can't blame the various militias in Kiev for being suspicious of a government that hasn't yet subjected itself to the scrutiny of the electorate but has made decisions that will have consequences for Ukraine for decades. In a way, they all brought this upon themselves, militias and ministers alike, but obviously the time for giving some thought to where they are all heading has now passed, and the controls have been wrested from hands in Kiev. The militias have the luxury of remaining on the streets and breathing down the neck of the government while the government goes about doing the bidding of the new owners of Ukraine. The militias reserve the right to judge as cuts are rolled out in the coming months and are apparently going to remain active while the election campaign rumbles on. I wonder how acceptable this will be in Washington.

oh math, what a rose-tinted view you have of pro-Russian armed gangs!

www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/world/europe/crimea-offers-showcase-for-russias-rebooted-military.html?action=click&contentCollection=Europe&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article
Are you thinking of uniformed personnel other than the Russian Army personnel?

I am interested that you consider "pro-Russian armed gangs" to be synonymous with the Russian Army.

I expect you are thinking of the early days of the invasion of Ukraine, when the Russian forces took the insignia off their vehicles and uniforms, and Russian propaganda pretended that they were locally-organised groups of Ukrainian citizens who had bought their uniforms, guns and tanks in some Crimean uniform, gun and tank shop.

That was such a blatant lie that I think we can put it behind us now.

I don't. I just wondered if you did and sought clarification in light of your earlier assertions of widespread violence and general thuggery.

'ZunZuneo would seem to be a throwback from the cold war' Blimey, they are busy...

hallo everyone, I haven't been following this thread, but you might be interested in this link- some Ukraine people's messages-
world.maidanua.org/2014/kharkiv-citizens-appeal-to-the-international-community
was sent me by a friend whose BIL is from there

Oh, shame, Darth Vader not allowed to run for president of Ukraine.

Apparently they are afraid he is there to discredit the vote... Clearly they were seriously scared he could take huge amount of votes, otherwise why would they bother?

Raving Loonies are allowed to run for Westminster parliament without discrediting it.